JunkyardJack

Hey everybody,

I'm not a car guy but I just bought a 2007 Chevy Impala with 67855 miles because well, I'm not a car guy and less miles seemed like less problems. The people were nice and told me everything they knew about the car and so I know for example I need to reset the Tire Pressure lights by deflating the tires about 5 seconds till the horn beeps for each tire and then reinflate to the proper psi. He said it happens every time they rotate the tires. The car has practically new tires but I'd don't know if that's because of the tire wear problems I read about afterwards in the user reviews at Edmunds.com or the factory tires were ready to be changed after 9 years and 67K miles.

The car doesn't accelerate or steer like any car I've ever driven. The pedal is so tight the car seems to hesitate when I accelerate from being stopped and then it goes. The steering wheel is so easy to turn and the car turns so sharply it feels almost like a video game Pole Position or something.

I do like the exterior as it is pretty. The interior less so but it's nice too.

I had bought an OBDII reader and the Torque Application just to see what the engine diagnostics were saying and to save $7 a month from Drive Safe & Save.

No warning lights are on but the Tire Pressure Light so I wasn't expecting any OBDII error messages, however there are several. I ran the test with the car idling in the driveway. If I get out of the car the engine is louder that I would expect.

I've pasted the OBDII log below. It has the 3.5 L V6 E85 Engine.

Should I worry about those error messages?

Should I have a mechanic fix the car so those messages don't happen?

Thanks for looking.

+++++

Mode $06 report generated by Torque for Android ================================================

Vehicle VIN: 2G1WB58K9++++++++
Vehicle Manufacturer: Chevrolet
Vehicle Calibration ID: 12616478

Test report:
------------------
MID:$01 TID:$05
Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 120ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 18ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$06
Lean to Rich sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 95ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 19ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$80
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 45Changes
Test result value: 228Changes
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 45Changes
Test result value: 229Changes
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8a
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 1,080Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 328Count
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8b
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 1.07494V Min: 0.72309V
Test result value: 0.73285V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8c
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 0.24424V Min: 0V
Test result value: 0V
PASS
----
MID:$21 TID:$a0
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 1
Max: 0.99939 Min: 0.29981
Test result value: 0.97695
PASS
----
MID:$3a TID:$c0
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Max: 17L Min: 0L
Test result value: 3.622L
PASS
----
MID:$3a TID:$c1
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
--
MID:$3c TID:$c8
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Max: 0.59765Ratio Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0.43749Ratio
PASS
----
MID:$3c TID:$c9
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Max: 0.72655Ratio Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0.01953Ratio
PASS
----
MID:$3c TID:$ca
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Max: 1Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$3c TID:$cb
- EVAP Monitor (0.040")
Max: 1Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$c4
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 6,553.5S Min: 60S
Test result value: 60S
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$c5
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 2,500Pa Min: -8,000Pa
Test result value: 129.25Pa
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$c6
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 60S Min: 0S
Test result value: 2.1S
PASS
----
MID:$3d TID:$c7
- EVAP Monitor (0.020")
Max: 40L Min: 6L
Test result value: 6L
PASS
----
MID:$41 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 1
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$41 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 1
Max: 2.17 Min: -4.009
Test result value: -0.668
PASS
----
MID:$42 TID:$d2
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 2
Max: 8Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$42 TID:$d3
- O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 2
Max: 4.481 Min: -7.869
Test result value: -0.767
PASS
----
MID:$58 TID:$30
-
Max: 409.70001 Min: 5,641.7002
Test result value: 2,893.1001
FAIL
----
MID:$71 TID:$72
- Secondary Air Monitor 1
Max: 40,960 Min: 10,432
Test result value: 9,904
FAIL
----
MID:$91 TID:$33
-
Max: 1 Min: 4,177
Test result value: 13,200
FAIL
----
MID:$a2 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a2 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 1 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a3 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 2 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a4 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 3 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a4 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 3 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a5 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 4 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a5 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 4 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a6 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 5 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a6 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 5 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a7 TID:$0b
EWMA Misfire counts (average) for last 10 drive cycles - Misfire Cylinder 6 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$a7 TID:$0c
Misfire counts for last/current driving cycles(calculated) - Misfire Cylinder 6 Data
Max: 65,535Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$b0 TID:$bf
-
Max: -74.45964% Min: 12.64749%
Test result value: -50.24813%
FAIL
----


End of report.

tech2

that is the problem with mode 6 data. most people do not know how to convert the hexadecimal format to anything meaningful.

you need the alpha numeric dtc codes to link it to a diagnostic procedure. IMO buy a cheap scan tool that will convert the data into a useable format.




as long as all the warning lights come on for a bulb check, them go off and do not come back on. You are golden.

JunkyardJack

I thought that's what I was using, a cheap scan tool. I can convert hexadecimal into any number of other numerical formats but they'll mean nothing to me. They seem to need to reference to an appropriate database for the appropriate vehicle as these messages seem incomplete.

I bought this device after my Toyota Avalon check engine light came on and because I had Drive Safe & Save I received the OBDII codes via the internet that caused the Drive Safe & Save lights to some on.

Since I had my Toyota totaled in an accident and to save $7 a month I bought this cheap device to test on an as needed basis but low and behold I have failed tests with no warning engine lights on. I do have Tire Pressure lights on but those messages don't sound like Tire Pressure warnings.

MID:$3a TID:$c1
- EVAP Monitor (cap off)
Test incomplete or dependant test failed
----
MID:$58 TID:$30
-
Max: 409.70001 Min: 5,641.7002
Test result value: 2,893.1001
FAIL
----
MID:$71 TID:$72
- Secondary Air Monitor 1
Max: 40,960 Min: 10,432
Test result value: 9,904
FAIL
----
MID:$91 TID:$33
-
Max: 1 Min: 4,177
Test result value: 13,200
FAIL
----
MID:$b0 TID:$bf
-
Max: -74.45964% Min: 12.64749%
Test result value: -50.24813%
FAIL
----

The bizarre thing about the 4 errors messages are:

1. MID:$3a TID:$c1
dependent is spelled as dependant - that's wrong
2. MID:$58 TID:$30 -
The Max is the small number and the Min is the large number?
Look at the value measured and it actually falls between the Max & Min given
unless the Min given is missing a negative sign and the value given is positive.
3. MID:$71 TID:$72
This time the Max is actually larger than the Min and the measured results
is smaller the Min so the Fail makes sense, even though I have no ideal
what a Secondary Air Monitor 1 is. An internet search says it's related to the
mix of air and exhausts.
4. MID:$91 TID:$33
A fail here actually makes sort of sense, but
the Max is the small number and the Min is the large number
but that measured value is well outside either the range even if the Min is
a negative number and the measured value is too.
5. MID:$b0 TID:$bf
Again the Max is the smaller value but is clearly marked as a negative number
and the Min is a small positive number. The problem is the test result value
is marked as a fail even then the measured value falls between the Max & Min.

So it looks like to the person untrained in the symbolic measurement notations of these OBDII engine codes that two of the five failures listed above are actually not failures but correct. I notice all PASS test results reference a test strings that indicates the purpose of the test, e.g. "O2 Heater Monitor Bank 1 - Sensor 2", while 3 of the 5 FAIL test results are missing any sort of descriptive string.

I was hoping an experienced mechanic in these forums might know. At any rate I will schedule an appointment at either the local mechanic's or the Chevy Dealer mechanic's and show them this same data and ask for their diagnosis and explanation.

Before I do that though I think I will contact the author of Torque and ask for an explanation as a deeper examination shows the FAIL messages might more likely be bugs in his program.

I will post what he says, and afterwards want the mechanics say, if I still have verified FAIL tests, for the other novices that have these OBDII scanners.

If someone can recommend a cheap Chevrolet / GM scanner, I'd appreciate it. A search of Amazon "Chevrolet engine scan tool" and wouldn't you know it the SW they are using is Torque too.

tech2

you need access to manufacturer data to convert the mode 6 data.


dealer techs do not do this as having the factory scan tool...all the raw data is converted automatically. mode 6 means nothing to dealer techs.


the best laptop system for using mode 6 data is made by autoenginuity. its even shows mode 6 test that have run and passed but are near failure limits. helpful for non dtc diagnosis.

JunkyardJack

Thanks. I will try that autoenginuity but I posted in the Torque forum as those 5 FAILS look like Torque bugs, or at least a couple of them, and that brings those results marked as PASS into question too, although the car runs fine although I think it idles way too loud.

cleveland63b

never knew there were "cheap" publicly accessible scanners that even did mode 6 data, learn something everyday.





Although as you have already talked about the generic obdII DTCs are a lot more helpful in most cases.

JunkyardJack

Well I looked up the price of the recommended Code 6 scanner and $249 is not cheap so I won't be buying it.

As I think my Torque / BAFX OBDII results aren't 100% correct due to software bugs I've posted my results in the Torque forum.

Although if it's a case of most Torque results being correct most of the time for most cars will the Torque developer(s) sit on their SW like GM did the Chevy Cobalt ignition off problem or will they fix the bugs in their SW?

cleveland63b

Honestly I think you're thinking too far in this, just get the codes checked if it has any. Diving that far into the obd monitors isn't necessary without an actual known problem and from glancing at the data you posted its showing results of tests your vehicle may not even have. Do you have California emissions? A lot of vehicles don't even have the secondary air system and some of the evap monitors have a lot of different criteria to be met before the test runs. Just see if you have any dtcs (for example p0300) and go from there

JunkyardJack

Actually I'm not looking too far into it. I'm a programmer by trade so really I can see the bugs I listed are simple fixes for the Torque developers.

As you suggest I too think the failures or at least most of them are harmless bugs that Torque is testing for things that aren't there in the car but those fixable by the developers.

But no I don't hold the severity of the GM's Chevy Cobalt with the severity of the Torque code - Torque is really in most hands, just a helpful warning indicator to get things looked at before they become breakdowns. I will have the GM dealer look at the results and explain them if they know (because really I want them to listen to how loud the engine is outside the car maybe it needs whatever the modern day equivalent of a tune-up is), which they probably won't according to the other guy who helped me with the Code 06 explanation. There are 2 possible recalls that need to be addressed for Chevy Impalas according to Drive Safe & Save for this VIN although the Chevrolet.com gives no recalls for this VIN, I'll ask the dealer directly anyway so I can finish giving this car the all clear. I pretty sure the previous owner did regular services on the car based on it's looks so they will have had the recalls done, something I didn't think to ask.

U.Nanimous

OK, so just bought it, no warning lights, read a bunch of O2 and other nonsense codes.

Clear all the codes, drive it about 50 miles and then see what comes back! And just look for stored or pending codes with the engine off. Did the PO or you switch fuels (unleaded vs E85), that will confuse the O2 sensors for a while. I've read a few BMW people using the Elm327 bluetooth OBDII and the Torque app on their phone, personally I use an Autel AL619 even though it costs a bit more. My mother bought an '08 back in September and I used it check out the engine, ABS/Traction and airbag systems.

As for the tire pressure monitor, you need to get out your owners manual and be sure to do it right. I don't know much about it but I do know that when you rotate the tires the pressure sensors (on the valve stems) will be telling the car the wrong tire is low so that does require a re-learning procedure. Other than that, I believe you can access the pressures from a button on the dash (right hand may reach it from the steering wheel..."Info" button?). And tire wear depends on how and where the car is driven and cared for as much as the type of tire. I'm guessing it was pretty nicely cared for since they know about the sensors after a tire rotation.

And about the gas pedal response, once you are sure there is nothing wrong with car - drive it like you stole it at least once a week! At 67K miles it is broken in, but sounds like it may have been babied too much. Lastly, fresh tires on a front wheel drive car always feels like Pole Position - on dry pavement.

Congratulations...now how about a picture of that "pretty" car?