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Silverado & Fullsize Pick-ups The Silverado has been one of the best selling trucks in the US for decades, and is truly proven to be "like a rock".

2014 Chevy Silverado
Platform: Truck, GMT 400, 800, & 900
Sponsored by: Bakliner

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  #191  
Old 03-03-2013, 07:35 PM
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Location: Physically in Norhtern VA, my heart is in SW Virginia.
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I feel your pain. You may improve the condition and there maybe some aftermarket ways to mod the set up to change the range to vibrate more out of your normal drive cycle. First all dealer personnel are employees of an independently owned and operated business so the clip will do nothing for you then create visibility to he condition but gain nothing in your legal position. You can check with an attorney (don't waste your time the lemon law mills advertised-talk face to face with a local attorney and see if you qualify under your states lemon law.) GM under government ownership is a new beast and they don't give a toot about you unless you have a legal qualification that be moved into court. If you do go for a substitution of collateral to trade into a 2013 you say does not vibrate. Dodge had the same issue with the past 1500 extended cab with the small V8. Haven't driven the new ones so don't know what changed. When the engine is a low rpm and the lock up converter kicks in at 47 mph (typical) you get chassie oscillations that feels like an out of round wheel or tire.
The after market mods I mentioned are playing with harder chassie to body rubber mounts under the cab, changing the lock up speed of the torque converter which could be done in the past maybe not any more due to the extensive electronic control
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  #192  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:11 PM
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Interesting read.
GM will only expend a limited amount of funds to research and find a non-safety repair for a vehicle problem and then only if it is a problem that affects a lot of vehciles, and I mean a lot.

GM engineers have analysts run warranty data on a weekly to monthly basis to determine those problems hitting high on the warranty costs. When a specific problem exceeds a certain number per 1000 vehicles, it is sent on to brand quality engineering and in turn, they will contact other engineering functions to attempt to get the problem solved. Low number problems might not be looked at too seriously.

Sometimes, engineering cannot determine the cause of a problem. There are those bastard problems where a cause can not be determined and in some cases, a fix cannot be determined. To explain that further, the 3.5L Atlas engine had a problem very early on with cylinder heads and no actual cause of the exact failure could be determined; however, it was discovered that hardening the head would prevent the problem so all heads were hardened to a higher spec and the bad heads were replaced with new hardened heads and the problem basically went away.

In this case, GM may have determined what the problem is, but the costs associated with the fix may be too high, at which point they will sit back and wait for the lawsuits to roll in and the buyback process to begin (remember, suing GM is not cheap, they will fight and they do have one large legal staff and contracts with hundreds of other law firms throughout the world). Or, they might not have been able to determine the exact cause; thus no cure is available.

I know quite a few people who have or have had 2011 and 2012 full size trucks and do not remember any of them complaining about this vibration issue.

From an engineering perspective, on a 1500 series I would go after an on-car balance of all four wheels. Many dealers will not even have the equipment to perform this so you might have to check ahead. But it allows the tire/wheel assemblies to be balance to the suspension and brake components.

Also, I would chain/strap the engine down and see if it was related to engine mounts. Engine mounts are notorious for for failing earlier than expected in many applications.

Could also do a check on the steering gear to makes sure there it is attached firmly to its mounting locations.

I believe someone already mentioned a possible torque converter problem and how to determine if that is the issue.

Last would be to run a vibration analyzer to try and locate where the vibration issue is coming from. Many dealers have the tool, whether or not they know how to use it is another matter. GM Field Service Engineers used to have them, but I'm talking prior to 2008, and times change and GM Field Service engineers were not GM employees but contracted to GM.

For a 2500/3500, all of the above but also look into a HD steering stabilizer.

I know I'm late to this thread and so far I can say my 2013 Crew Cab runs like a damn Cadillac down the road at all speeds up to 80. However, I also know if my vehicle started to vibrate and no one could fix it, GM would see me in the BBB arbitration room and that BBB arbitration does work. Know that, been there on the opposite side of the table you will be at.

Hope this helps someone. If not, all that is wasted is my fifteen minutes of typing and your two minutes of reading. If it helps one person, it was worth it!
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  #193  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:44 AM
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f5fstop,

Great opinion. Thanks
My dealer Mac Haik Chevrolet in Houston has been fantastic. This is my first Chevy and I'm very disappointed with the lack of quality from bumper to bumper. I've never had a vehicle with so many problems including and not limited to dash board cracks, door lock motors, door handle chrome, door handle paint, engine oil leaks, brake vibrations, tires, paint, A/C, drive shaft yoke, blower motor, seat panel.
Diana Shore would roll over in her grave knowing the quality is gone and so are the jobs to China. We tax payers, bailed GM out while it was building factories in China. i don't think my LTZ will even make a good lawn man work truck. There has to be humor here.
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  #194  
Old 03-06-2013, 04:08 PM
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f5fstop, You make some good points. I agree about chaining down the motor to isolate the condition. I do not believe this issue has anything to do with tire wheel condition. It is easy to swap wheels hub to hub from a truck not demonstrating the condition and driving it on the same section of road at the same speeds. If the condition remains you have clearly eliminated the wheels. Note that when some of the trucks have the condition and others do not I hesitate to focus on a chassie issue. Like you say look at the motor and trans rubber mounts. When driving at 55 and keep you right foot on the gas at a steady 55 mph while the truck is shaking apply just enough brake pedal to turn on the brake lights on which will kick it out of OD or lock-up when the PCM see's the brake lights. Does the condition remain ? I am somewhat new to GM trucks however 2011 seams to be targeted with a lot of vibration complaints. Ford and Doge have their own fair share of the same concerns. At one time Doge could not come up with a round chrome wheel right out of the box. My father in law had a F150 2wd and Ford would not address the shake and restricted the dealer from moving forward with any attempts. It isn't just GM. I missed the mileage, I did not get the impression this has been going on since new. A lot of variables may be in play here.
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  #195  
Old 03-06-2013, 05:08 PM
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Just a point. An on-vehicle balance balances the components to the vehicle. All these components from the rubber on the wheels, the wheels, hubs etc., are attached to the vehicle and can cause a frequency that will create a vibration, So it could be a shaft, or another component. Not saying this is the problem, in fact it is really a stretch. This is really the first I have heard of this on the these model year vehicles. Of course, I left GM during the great flushing of engineering back in 2008; prior to their bankruptcy. And this is my first ever pickup truck.

I remember there was a problem, called frame beaming, on 07 or 08 GMT900s. I should see if I can locate the bulletin or maybe it was a campaign. I'll look later...

I found it on my GM ESI DVD:
I would imagine that the dealers have already followed this, but just in case (many dealers fail to read their bulletins even more so, after GM stopped mailing them and sent only electronically).

#PIT3009M: Suspension Vibration Or Frame Beaming At 40-60 MPH (64-96km/h) - (Apr 28, 2011)


Subject: Suspension Vibration Or Frame Beaming At 40-60 MPH (64-96 KM/H)


Models: 1999-2011 Chevrolet Silverado and Silverado Classic

1999-2011 GMC Sierra and Sierra Classic




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This PI was superseded to update model years. Please discard PIT3009L.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Beam shake vibration is usually felt in the seat and occurring at speeds between 40-60 mph (64 - 96 km/h). Hertz readings using an EVA tool are normally between 8-24 Hz. This condition is most common on extended cab and crew cab models but has also been noted in other models.

The severity of beam shake may vary from vehicle to vehicle. To determine if the concern is beam shake, please perform the following

•Test drive vehicle to confirm the condition. A beam shake condition will usually respond to concrete type pavements more than asphalt, so the vehicle should be driven over both surfaces if possible.
•Place 200-500 pounds in the pickup bed between the closed tailgate and the wheel wells. The beaming condition should dissipate.
Note: Tires with excessive Radial Force Variation (RFV) or out-of-roundness can intensify the frame beaming concern. The following radial force variation numbers should be used as a guide:

P-Metric tires (2wd 1500): 12 lbs or less

P-Metric tires (all others): 24 lbs or less

LT-tires: 30 lbs or less



Recommendation/Instructions:
If the concern is determined to be beam shake, this is a characteristic of the vehicle. GM Engineering has released updated body mounts to help reduce this concern for the Crew and Extended Cab Models. There will be no changes made to the Regular Cab Models.

On 2009 and later models, many trucks are already built with the updated body mounts. Before replacing the body mount visually inspect the mounts to make sure they are the old style.

The new upper and lower mounts should be installed at the left and right rear cab positions. Inspect the upper mounts in these positions and compare to the pictures below to help determine if they are the new or old style mounts:

•If the upper mount is similar to the picture below (1), then this is the old style and the new mounts should be installed (Extended and Crew Cab Models Only). Follow the appropriate SI procedure for replacing the body mounts and torque to spec.
Note: The new LOWER mount is a two piece design, meaning there is a rubber mount with a metal washer. Some models may use a one piece lower mount, meaning the rubber mount has a metal washer molded into it. If the vehicle has the one piece lower mount design, washers (PN 15854745, Qty 2) will be needed to be used with the new lower mount.

Click the image to open in full size.



•If the upper mount is similar to the pictures below (2 and 3), then this is the NEW style mount and no further repairs should be performed.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.





Parts Info

Part # Description Qty

25994881 Upper Mount 2

25791032 Lower Mount 2

15854745 (if needed) Washer 2

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.



GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a ""do-it-yourselfer"". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION


© 2013 General Motors. All rights reserved.

Last edited by f5fstop; 03-06-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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  #196  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:02 PM
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mhanlen mhanlen mhanlen
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f5fstop,
I think this is what everyone needed to see. Where have you been since you left GM? You're the man. We'll immediately raise your status from beginner (as if I have any clout). LOL Well, this site doesn't pay with anything but appreciation. I love those TSB's.
My daughter had the updated body mounts installed in her 2011 Suburban. She said it stopped all of her shimmy as well as a hub bearing.
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  #197  
Old 03-07-2013, 05:06 PM
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I would just like to see this problem get fixed. If it was me I would go crazy and go for a buy back. Sorry part of the PIP is the fact that if the mounts are new style GM does not say how to fix the problem or what the next step should be.
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  #198  
Old 03-07-2013, 05:32 PM
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Still fighting with GM and the BBB. There may be a attempt to put me in a 2014, but I am fearful of a new model. The fear may be warranted especially since GM has sold out to China. Is it called government motors or communist motors. Check out this video.


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  #199  
Old 03-07-2013, 07:23 PM
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I don’t own any allegiance to GM. Only reason I purchased a GM is due to the fact their trucks are as good as all other trucks made, and I also get one hell of a discount (retired GM). So, that is why I drive a GM product. However, I came very close to purchasing a Ford.

However, Vince Wade is a jerk. He was a jerk when he worked for one of the TV stations when I lived in Detroit.

As for GM and China? Think about it. China is the largest growing consumer population in the world and those plants in China are for building vehicles that will be sold in China and other far eastern countries. No car manufacture will survive in this world if they do not build plants in the markets they are trying to sell in. And as much as I was against the bailout, the money from the US and Canada did nothing for the Chinese (or European) markets. It was primarily used to keep the UAW in business and the US manufacturing in business.

I didn't want to see GM go down, I though Romney had a better idea. No turnover of $ to GM, just load guarantees, to allow GM to borrow money from private investors and/or banks; after GM went bankrupt and dissolved those nasty UAW contracts. And if they then failed, yes, the Government would have to turn over some cash for the loan guarantees.

As for the 70 percent figure? That includes cars made in Canada as well as Mexico. And GM make a lot of cars in Canada (in the Oshawa 1 and 2 or CAMI assembly plants) and in Mexico in a very large plant in Silao (where Silverados are made), San Louis Potosi or Ramos Arizpe There is a very good chance the Silverado or Sierra you are driving was made in Mexico. I know mine was. Just look at the first character of your VIN 1,4 or 5 it is US made, 2 it is Canadian made and with the trucks a heck of a lot will have a 3 for Mexico.
So I would not go as far as to say GM has sold out to China. Their linking to the Chinese companies is how you have to do business in that country. No way around it, and Ford/Chrysler will or already are linked to some of those or other companies.
As for the new truck. If your truck has this bad vibration issue I would say go for it. However, I would also say it is a new model year and new models are notorious for having problems. I’ll be truthful and say that is one reason I am driving a 2013 vs. a 2014. The other reason is the extra 6K they gave me off the 2013 as an extra incentive over and above my normal GM retiree cost for the vehicle.
Good luck….
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  #200  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:32 PM
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Wow. You don't have have any ties to GM?...other than they provided you a good living for over 30 years and send you a fat retirement check in the mail every month!....and they allow you a huge discount on GM vehicles! Talk about loyalty. Although you have offered the best information to date on these vibrating trucks, I don't believe it is the forum for political views or a place to slam the UAW. But since you did...I worked at Borg Warner Automotive for 25 years as a proud union worker. In October of this year I could have retired with 30 years, legacy costs that President Tim Manganello and the board didn't want to pay. Corporate greed eventually closed our plant in 2009, three years after achieving the status of "One of the Most Productive Plants in America" by a leading manufacturing publication. Borg Warner, formerly Warner Gear of Muncie, was in business for over a hundred years in our community. My father and uncle both retired from there. Our plant still closed two years after the union gave $12,000,000 in concessions. We made transfer cases for Ford and GM and our quality was world class, second to none. Locking hubs, T10, T5, T56, marine industrial transmissions...all went away. Now BW struggles to make a good product after a try in Mexico failed. Their other plants are low wages and have a large turnover...hard to care too much about the work you do for low level wages. The average wage continues to fall for auto workers due to the new "tier" sytem, as $30 an hour people retire, a $12 an hour person takes their place and they can't even afford to buy the product they build. I'm still waiting to see a price drop in cars but it's not going to happen, prices still go up, it just means more corporate $ and bigger bonuses for CEO's. Let's eliminate all those middle class jobs and see how many $40,000 trucks they sell.
As for myself. I only buy GM, preferably Chevrolet's (there are five at my house) This latest problem and GM's lack of fixing the problem have shaken my devotion. I guess my love of Chevrolets corrolates directly to their success on the race track, the longevity of the Corvette for 60 years, and the re-sale and dependablity of my Silverado compared to a Ford, Dodge, or Toyota.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:32 PM
 
 
 
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1500, 2011, 2012, chevy, fix, ride, rough, shaking, silverado, silyerado, steering, stiff, truck, vibration, wheel


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