2001 Suburban (5.3L) -- Leaking oil, coolant... water mixing with oil??
November 10th, 2012, 6:50 PM
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2001 Suburban (5.3L) -- Leaking oil, coolant... water mixing with oil??
OK, first thing's first... this isn't my vehicle, but a couple that I know. Very strapped for cash and I'm only a very, very amateur mechanic, tho I've got a good number of tools to solve just about any job. I can certainly read a book and follow instructions, too.
Anyway, here's the symptoms...
- Appears to be leaking from the rear of the intake manifold on the driver side only. There is oil all over the left-rear of the engine and it gradually grows wider, with at least half of the oil pan covered in oil, but the transmission pan being COMPLETELY covered in oil.
- Dipstick was completely dry after wiping down and checking what the level was.
- I suggested just filling up with a quart or two until they find the source of the leak, but I noticed ==foam==
under the filler cap and filler tube. What was under the cap actually looked pretty nasty, IMHO.
*** So after seeing that foam, I suggested they might want to change the oil instead of just top it off and wait to see where the leak was.
After researching a bit, the coolant can only leak thru the intake gasket on the 5.7L engines. Bummer, because that could have solved both of their problems.
Possible Solutions
-----------------
(1) So from what I'm understanding... a quick fix could be to use "mendtite" block sealant. Which should be added to the oil?? before [or after?] the oil change???
(2) Alternatively, the intake manifold gasket can just be replaced on the left side.
And then the only possible options for the water in the engine are... replacing the head (or entire engine) or replacing the water pump. Is there any way to easily determine what the real problem is??
It's too dark to do any serious work on the car, but should I suggest that they completely flush and change the oil?? Or just top it off?? ... with the Mendtite [or similar block sealant]???
I've never had a car with a problem like this, but I'd certainly like to know what to do. I'm just like a deer in headlights right now....
My first suggestion was initially to top it off, but now I'm thinking they should just change the oil and sell it ASAP. But is this block sealant thing a good idea... and how does one use it properly??? With the water still in the oil? Or with fresh oil???
Anyway, here's the symptoms...
- Appears to be leaking from the rear of the intake manifold on the driver side only. There is oil all over the left-rear of the engine and it gradually grows wider, with at least half of the oil pan covered in oil, but the transmission pan being COMPLETELY covered in oil.
- Dipstick was completely dry after wiping down and checking what the level was.
- I suggested just filling up with a quart or two until they find the source of the leak, but I noticed ==foam==
under the filler cap and filler tube. What was under the cap actually looked pretty nasty, IMHO.*** So after seeing that foam, I suggested they might want to change the oil instead of just top it off and wait to see where the leak was.
After researching a bit, the coolant can only leak thru the intake gasket on the 5.7L engines. Bummer, because that could have solved both of their problems.
Possible Solutions
-----------------
(1) So from what I'm understanding... a quick fix could be to use "mendtite" block sealant. Which should be added to the oil?? before [or after?] the oil change???
(2) Alternatively, the intake manifold gasket can just be replaced on the left side.
And then the only possible options for the water in the engine are... replacing the head (or entire engine) or replacing the water pump. Is there any way to easily determine what the real problem is??
It's too dark to do any serious work on the car, but should I suggest that they completely flush and change the oil?? Or just top it off?? ... with the Mendtite [or similar block sealant]???
I've never had a car with a problem like this, but I'd certainly like to know what to do. I'm just like a deer in headlights right now....
My first suggestion was initially to top it off, but now I'm thinking they should just change the oil and sell it ASAP. But is this block sealant thing a good idea... and how does one use it properly??? With the water still in the oil? Or with fresh oil???
November 10th, 2012, 7:13 PM
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If this is an only external leak, I'd suggest besides refilling the oil is retorque the upper intake bolts. You have nothing to loose with that. This based on your post of the oil leak, best of luck.
November 10th, 2012, 11:40 PM
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5.3 engine has no coolant or oil in the intake. You can not replace one side intake gasket you have to take the intake completely off to change gasket. The valley cover under the intake could be your oil leak. Engines do not leak enough oil to show low on the dipstick unless it leaves puddles (not drips) every time it is parked. Most likely it was burned. Depending on how many miles it has been since the last oil change determines if it excessive. As far as the coolant is the level low? Read the TSB in the link below it is a high probability your coolant oil mix is for this reason.
https://chevroletforum.com/forum/sil...9-5-3-a-54298/
https://chevroletforum.com/forum/sil...9-5-3-a-54298/
November 11th, 2012, 2:07 AM
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OK, soo... the coolant leak has been going down to around the low fill level, but they've been putting it slightly above the max fill line, as well.
The engine oil leak was NON-EXISTANT up until maybe a week or two weeks top. There weren't even drips. What I see is what I would call "small puddles" that is coming from drips.
Anyway... the accepted solution, considering the available budget and all... was to put some "Bar's Leaks 1186 Liquid Aluminum Stop Leak" (straight from the Amazon title), it actually says "Cooling System - Radiator - Stop Leak" on the bottle. The reviews actually seem pretty fair, but the people who give it 5-stars say not to follow the directions and to DRIVE the car for 40-50 min (not just "idle or drive for 10-20 min, which is exactly what the directions say. Pretty foolish if you ask me.). I would have been more patient and read these reviews first if it were my car *and* I had no other options... but the couple I'm dealing with was very impatient. Had to do it THIS second. And I can't really fault them. Anyway, I suggested that they let the car at least IDLE for longer than 10 min. In the end, it really idled about 20-25 min, driven for about 4 min, idled about 10-15 min, and driven for another 4 min. So the car was RUNNING for about 40-45 min, but it certainly wasn't DRIVEN hard or anything. Hopefully that will be good enough not to clog any small passageways....
As for the leaking oil, it was also recommended to use Bars "Engine Oil Stop Leak Concentrate", which was ~11oz if I remember correctly. They topped off the oil with some dollar store stuff, and I think they'll be putting that in tomorrow half-way thru the oil change. Hopefully this shiz will work.
I'm still recommending that they sell the truck as I know things are only going to keep getting worse and worse with each progressive leak. Even if it's just 6,000 miles away before they see it.... eventually it will flood before they realize it. Oh well....
The engine oil leak was NON-EXISTANT up until maybe a week or two weeks top. There weren't even drips. What I see is what I would call "small puddles" that is coming from drips.
Anyway... the accepted solution, considering the available budget and all... was to put some "Bar's Leaks 1186 Liquid Aluminum Stop Leak" (straight from the Amazon title), it actually says "Cooling System - Radiator - Stop Leak" on the bottle. The reviews actually seem pretty fair, but the people who give it 5-stars say not to follow the directions and to DRIVE the car for 40-50 min (not just "idle or drive for 10-20 min, which is exactly what the directions say. Pretty foolish if you ask me.). I would have been more patient and read these reviews first if it were my car *and* I had no other options... but the couple I'm dealing with was very impatient. Had to do it THIS second. And I can't really fault them. Anyway, I suggested that they let the car at least IDLE for longer than 10 min. In the end, it really idled about 20-25 min, driven for about 4 min, idled about 10-15 min, and driven for another 4 min. So the car was RUNNING for about 40-45 min, but it certainly wasn't DRIVEN hard or anything. Hopefully that will be good enough not to clog any small passageways....
As for the leaking oil, it was also recommended to use Bars "Engine Oil Stop Leak Concentrate", which was ~11oz if I remember correctly. They topped off the oil with some dollar store stuff, and I think they'll be putting that in tomorrow half-way thru the oil change. Hopefully this shiz will work.
I'm still recommending that they sell the truck as I know things are only going to keep getting worse and worse with each progressive leak. Even if it's just 6,000 miles away before they see it.... eventually it will flood before they realize it. Oh well....
November 11th, 2012, 11:32 AM
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I know there are those on this forum that will say don't use Bar's but when my kids were driving the used car of the day, I found Bar's to work quite well. Never used the oil version tho.
November 11th, 2012, 10:43 PM
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This should be my last reply...
The car was driven to and from the owner's work today, no more than 10 minutes one-way. When she got back home, I checked under the oil cap and sure enough... there was water. We didn't change the oil last night, only topped it off.... so that's mostly to be expected, really.
We put in half of the Valvoline High-Mileage 10w-30 (5-quart jug), all of the Bars Leaks "Engine Oil Stop Leak Concentrate", then the rest of the Valvoline and not even half of the STP 10w-30 we got from the dollar store for topping off yesterday. (weren't on level ground, tho, so perhaps got an improper "max" reading?)
It idled for around 15 min, and since the oil pressure looked about normal to the owner (just under 40 psi @ idle, and anywhere from 40 with light pedal to 45 or more when accelerating)... we went for a good 25 min non-stop ride to make sure that the coolant sealant was definitely all spread out in the system and not going to clog anything. We even turned the fans on max heat to make 100% sure the coolant was getting max flow.
When we got back to the house, checked under the oil cap and ONLY OIL!! NO WATER!! Great sign.
And since the oil pressure looked normal, I think that's all right, too... but we'll have a better idea tomorrow when they back out to go to work. I was surprised that the oil pressure shot right back to "normal" on first crank, when the bottle says it could take 200+ miles to stop the leaks. And that stuff looked no thicker than the 10w-30 we put in it!!! I was telling them that they'd more than likely need the "rear main seal" version of the Bars... but it appeared to work right away. Was more than surprised.
The car was driven to and from the owner's work today, no more than 10 minutes one-way. When she got back home, I checked under the oil cap and sure enough... there was water. We didn't change the oil last night, only topped it off.... so that's mostly to be expected, really.
We put in half of the Valvoline High-Mileage 10w-30 (5-quart jug), all of the Bars Leaks "Engine Oil Stop Leak Concentrate", then the rest of the Valvoline and not even half of the STP 10w-30 we got from the dollar store for topping off yesterday. (weren't on level ground, tho, so perhaps got an improper "max" reading?)
It idled for around 15 min, and since the oil pressure looked about normal to the owner (just under 40 psi @ idle, and anywhere from 40 with light pedal to 45 or more when accelerating)... we went for a good 25 min non-stop ride to make sure that the coolant sealant was definitely all spread out in the system and not going to clog anything. We even turned the fans on max heat to make 100% sure the coolant was getting max flow.
When we got back to the house, checked under the oil cap and ONLY OIL!! NO WATER!! Great sign.
And since the oil pressure looked normal, I think that's all right, too... but we'll have a better idea tomorrow when they back out to go to work. I was surprised that the oil pressure shot right back to "normal" on first crank, when the bottle says it could take 200+ miles to stop the leaks. And that stuff looked no thicker than the 10w-30 we put in it!!! I was telling them that they'd more than likely need the "rear main seal" version of the Bars... but it appeared to work right away. Was more than surprised.
Last edited by grndslm; November 11th, 2012 at 10:45 PM.
November 27th, 2012, 10:33 PM
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::UPDATE::
Only two or three days from my last post went by before they realized oil was leaking again. I suggested they try the Bars Leaks concentrated "Rear Main Seal Stop Leak" and get serious about selling the car.
Yadda yadda... it worked fine up until yesterday. They tell me that the engine is now smoking from underneath.
Oh yea... and there was water underneath the oil cap like three days after my last post, as well.
Sooo.... I'm at a loss of what to recommend them to do. I told them that all of this was temporary and they should sell it, but two weeks wasn't long enough for them.
They are not the best at managing money, yet they want me to drive them around for hours each day. Not my choice that they decided to rent a home 15 miles away from both of their works.
I will help them tear the thing down or replace it if we can figure out if it's possible to rent an engine hoist....
But let this be a lesson to all of you!! Don't brush aside an issue like this and think that a "stop leak" has permanently solved your problems!!!!
Only two or three days from my last post went by before they realized oil was leaking again. I suggested they try the Bars Leaks concentrated "Rear Main Seal Stop Leak" and get serious about selling the car.
Yadda yadda... it worked fine up until yesterday. They tell me that the engine is now smoking from underneath.
Oh yea... and there was water underneath the oil cap like three days after my last post, as well.
Sooo.... I'm at a loss of what to recommend them to do. I told them that all of this was temporary and they should sell it, but two weeks wasn't long enough for them.
They are not the best at managing money, yet they want me to drive them around for hours each day. Not my choice that they decided to rent a home 15 miles away from both of their works. I will help them tear the thing down or replace it if we can figure out if it's possible to rent an engine hoist....
But let this be a lesson to all of you!! Don't brush aside an issue like this and think that a "stop leak" has permanently solved your problems!!!!
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November 29th, 2012, 12:12 PM
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I'm by no means an expert...but it doesn't take a PhD in auto repair to know that once water mixes with oil, the oil becomes dramatically less effective. I'd bet that the engine bearings are worn down. Probably getting bad compression, too.
At a minimum, you'd need to get the leak found and fixed...the snake oil that pretends to magically fix leaks will not be a good long term solution.
Selling a problem to someone else...well...I wouldn't be able to do that and still sleep well at night. Best guess is your buddy needs to get a new engine installed. If the rest of the car is in good shape, it might have 10+ more years. These cars were generally well built...and will last a long long time when they are taken care of.
Good luck!
At a minimum, you'd need to get the leak found and fixed...the snake oil that pretends to magically fix leaks will not be a good long term solution.
Selling a problem to someone else...well...I wouldn't be able to do that and still sleep well at night. Best guess is your buddy needs to get a new engine installed. If the rest of the car is in good shape, it might have 10+ more years. These cars were generally well built...and will last a long long time when they are taken care of.
Good luck!
November 29th, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Well....
I guess I misspoke about the water still leaking.
Apparently, they had to top off the water reservoir ONE time after the coolant stop leak. Since then, they haven't added any more.
I checked the oil cap, and there was a MINIMAL amount of foam and water droplets. Maybe 1/20th of what I saw a couple weeks ago.
Sooo.... I guess the oil leak is the only real problem, and I'm thinking it's coming from the rear main seal. Perhaps the smoking is just what's leaking underneath the engine/trans??
They are going to take it to someone tomorrow who will supposedly look at it for free, so we'll see how that goes.
I'm wondering if there would be any serious consequences of putting 10w-40, or even 15w-40 in this engine. I actually put Shell Rotella 15w-40 in my mom's Civic after it was leaking a quart every couple days, and those leaks ended up stopping. After a couple months, it would take a couple additional revolutions of the engine before it would crank, but that was better than losing a quart every couple days.
Guess we'll wait to see what the free mechanic says, but since the water leak has apparently stopped, I'm guessing rear main seal. Can't wait to get an official answer.
I guess I misspoke about the water still leaking.
Apparently, they had to top off the water reservoir ONE time after the coolant stop leak. Since then, they haven't added any more.
I checked the oil cap, and there was a MINIMAL amount of foam and water droplets. Maybe 1/20th of what I saw a couple weeks ago.
Sooo.... I guess the oil leak is the only real problem, and I'm thinking it's coming from the rear main seal. Perhaps the smoking is just what's leaking underneath the engine/trans??
They are going to take it to someone tomorrow who will supposedly look at it for free, so we'll see how that goes.
I'm wondering if there would be any serious consequences of putting 10w-40, or even 15w-40 in this engine. I actually put Shell Rotella 15w-40 in my mom's Civic after it was leaking a quart every couple days, and those leaks ended up stopping. After a couple months, it would take a couple additional revolutions of the engine before it would crank, but that was better than losing a quart every couple days.
Guess we'll wait to see what the free mechanic says, but since the water leak has apparently stopped, I'm guessing rear main seal. Can't wait to get an official answer.
