Troberg

First, some background:


In Sweden, we have a law requiring winter tires in the winter. These can be either studded (which I consider the best alternative), un-studded or M/S (mud/snow). I'm a bit low on cash at the moment (sold the old car to the eldest daughter, and won't get paid for a while), and would rather not have to spend the money for new studded tires right now.


The tires on the car is the OEM Firestone Wilderness LE M/S.


However, now Swedidh law becomes a bit complicated. Not all M/S tires are actually made for "real" winter driving, just some occasional bad weather. To add to the confusion, some manufacturers considers M/S to mean mud/sand. To make sense of this, the tire organization in Sweden has made a list of M/S tires explicitly made for winter driving. However, it's not that easy, as the Suburban was never sold in Sweden, and the OEM tires were not sold separately, they don't appear on any Swedish lists.


So, I mailed Firestone a few weeks ago, but has not recieved any response.


Is there anyone here who knows if the Firestone Wilderness LE are made for winter conditions as true winter tires (preferably with some quotable source, should I be stopped by the police)?

SWHouston

Greetings, and welcome to the Forum

I've found sources for your tires and can see why those LE's aren't listed with your regulator as having a real winter/snow tread. They're generally a course treaded Hi-Way tire.

I know it is inconvenient for you, but I think that having someone besides the Tire Manufacturer decide what tread type tire is acceptable for show/ice is a very good idea. Most all of the Manufacturers have a tendency to "fudge" some to a lot, when they say a Tire is for a given purpose. Often times, the tread pattern just doesn't cut it at all. So kudos to the Sweds for insisting on something that will work.

I've only got web sources for what's available here in the US, and, if you were to order from a US source, the shipping would probably be outrageous. You might try shopping around locally, and try to find a used set which is acceptable.

If you can give me a link to that list that the Sweds have approved, I'd really like to see it.

Troberg

I have no problem finding tires here, it's just that I'd rather wait until next winter, especially as I need rims as well. So, if the existing ones worked, I'd be happy.


Here's the list: http://stro.se/wp-content/uploads/20...03_Swedish.pdf

Note that the list is maintained by the manufacturers, so they it hasn't got any government testing science stuff backing it up, just the word of the manufacturers that they are suitable for winter.

SWHouston

Thanks for the link !

That's a LOT of "acceptable" tires/tread patterns, but, since the Tire Manufacturers put the list together, that doesn't surprise me.
As previously stated and in other words...
"They want their product on your vehicle, and your money in their pocket".

Just to get to the point...
If I were you, I wouldn't take the chance on "them" accepting the LE's as a Snow/Ice tread, because it clearly is not. I'm not sure just what action (punitive/warning) they may take if they caught you, but you need to evaluate that, and operate your vehicle accordingly.

I am very much a proponent of putting the size tire on a vehicle, which the Manufacturer (GM) recommends. When changing size, even if you follow specific rules, you are changing the characteristics of what GM intended, and that may cause problems, from slight to major, depending on the severity of the change. However, many people increase size for a specific look, or performance ability, and are willing to ignore those issues.

The above was stated because of your comment on needing Rims.
Why is that ? Are they not OEM (Original Equipment of Manufacturer) ? Or are they damaged in some way ?

Troberg

Actually, they make more profit by having tires that are clearly season specific. If they could get away with it, they'd probably have spring and autumn tires as well...

As for the rim, it's simply that, when I buy winter tires, I'll buy studded tires (there's no substitute for those claws on blank ice). I want a simple swap twice a year, and that means two sets of rims. I don't want to have to switch tires on the same set of rims.

I'll probably go with the same size, possibly slightly narrower (too wide tends to give worse grip, due to the lower pressure). I won't go for those large rims that leaves almost no space for rubber.

I'll probably go with steel rims, I usually do that with the winter tires. Cheaper, and more robust if you happen to skid and bump them.

intheburbs

I've never heard of M+S being "mud and sand."

As far as I know, all M+S tires here in the US are mud and snow. In states that require snow/studded/chains in their higher elevations, like Colorado, M+S tires are acceptable.

I lived in Colorado for 10 years.

Scotiapilot

the best snow and rain tires I have ever used were Firestone winterforce. soft compound and you will likely only get two seasons, but they are worth it. Cheap too.

Troberg

The mud+sand is just what was written on the government web site. I don't know if it's true. Possibly, it's China tires...

I live outside of town, with a 150 m long drive to the road. I seldom have the energy to shovel it in the morning, especially if there has been a lot of snow during the night, so I just drive it flat most of the time. Makes one appreciate good tires and high clearance...

That said, we often have packed snow or ice, and then, studded tires rule the road. I'd like a pretty heavy tread as well, which is good in snow.

Edit:

My house: https://www.google.se/maps/@60.45131.../data=!3m1!1e3

There are also some pretty steep slopes on the roads out, and the roads are low priority for the snow plough.

Scotiapilot

M+S, or M&S: Mud and Snow; A tire that meets the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) and Rubber Association of Canada (RAC) all-season tire definition. These are winter tires, with self-cleaning tread and average traction in muddy or very snowy conditions, and for low temperatures.

SWHouston

Troberg,

I've had the exact thing you mentioned. A separate set of Tires for winter, mounted on inexpensive Steel Rims, which I just painted to match the color of my Suburban. A 30 minute change, put me in Winter Mode.

I certainly go for "same size" but...
I've found that in many instances, having more rubber on the road is an advantage.