Troberg

Unfortunately, Swedish law does not agree in som cases.

Not on snow, there you need a tire that can cut through the snow, instead of going on top of it. Don't overdo it, of course, there's a balance to it.

I've had cars with very wide tires, and they were downright impossible to handle on snow.

SWHouston

Troberg,
What vehicle are you needing these Tires for ?

Troberg

2001 Suburban LT, 4WD.

SWHouston

That's a great year, you can expect many thousands of miles out of it.

One other thing...
In most, if not all of the US (unsure about all) we are (unfortunately) not allowed the use of Studs in our tires. Apparently they are accepted/recommended in Sweden. Are your road surfaces there different than ours ? I've driven in more southern countries (Germany/France/Austria/Switzerland/Italy) and those roads didn't seem any different than those here.

Troberg

I sure hope I'll get many miles out of it, because I really love it. It's the large 8.1 liter engine, and, in my experience, large engines tends to last longer. It just needs a better stereo and it'll be perfect.


As for studded tires, we have a couple of streets in Stocholm where they are not allowed, but, other than that, they are allowed everywhere. Our road constructions are a little bit sturdier than most (Sweden is the world leader in traffic safety, and our road constructions play a large part in that), but not that different.


However, it's a large country with few people and cold Winters. This means that you can't always rely on the plough being done when you go to work in the morning, especially if you, like me, live on the outskirts of the town. It's not uncommon for me to have to drive through 30 cm/1 foot of unplowed snow to get to work in the morning, and it's not uncommon to have an entire winter without seeing asphalt. Things are just so much easier with good tires (Although, back when it was still legal, I have driven an entire winter on summer tires. One just have to adjust one's driving.).


My driveway in the winter:
http://troberg.synology.me/~anders/stuff/vinter.jpg


I used to have this beast, but I sold it, as it was over 50 years old and required me to spend more time fixing it than using it:
http://troberg.synology.me/~anders/stuff/lillagul.jpg


The other seasons are better, though:
http://troberg.synology.me/~anders/stuff/sommar.jpg
http://troberg.synology.me/~anders/stuff/host.jpg

SWHouston

HA, I didn't realize you had a lake in front of your house, until the last picture
What a great looking place !

Though I presently live in town, we have purchased a piece of property out in the boonies, and will move out there...soon. It has a pond on it.

Yes, what a "beast" !
Given that you live in such a "wintery" country, I would have thought you'd want to keep that around, just to get out of the house.
Do all Sweeds have their own personal Snow Plow ?

I suppose most US Citizens generally don't like Government Regulations, but, I wouldn't mind having a/those which pertained to road safety like Sweden. Here in southeast Texas, our winters usually are rather wet, with occasional freezing for short periods. There are dedicated Tires available for Wet Traction and Ice, but I see very few vehicles with them. With the general weather conditions changing like they are worldwide, that may change.

Given that you will choose the set of studded Tires from the approved list, have you selected a Mfg/Type yet ?

Troberg

Thanks. Actually, it's a small river/creek (maybe 30 meters wide, 1-2 meters deep). Great pike fishing, OK bass fishing.

Once you're there, there's no going back. It's paradise.

A Volvo BM222 back loader, quite rare, only 39 were made, and it was a prototype series between the vastly popular BM218 and BM225, so all of them are more or less different. I was sad to sell it. I tried to sell it to a museum, they were interested, but they didn't have the space for it.

It all boiled down to:


* Too much fixing. I swear, every part on it weighed at least 100 kg. If it had had a cigarette lighter, it would have weighed 100 kg. You more or less needed Another one to fix it, just to handle the parts...


* Too much money tied up in too little use. I can pay one of the local farmers to do my driveway many times for that money, especially as it's only really needed once or twice a year, the rest of the time, I can do it with a shovel or simply drive it flat with the car.

It's a mixed blessing. On one hand, the legislation sometimes becomes annoyingly OCD in it's details, on the other hand, our traffic is very safe, we are down to numbers of deaths thought impossible just 20 years ago. Then, no one thought we could get below 400 deaths per year, now we are at 250.


It's a multi-pronged approach:


* Better roads. Lot's that can be done here. More and better guardrails. Deeper and wider ditches that keeps a car that goes off the road off the road. Protection around hard objects (such as bridge supports). Moose fences (these are really important here). Clearing vegetation around the roads. More roundabouts instead of ordinary intersections. Speed bumps where low speed is important. Building roads so that they "look the way they are supposed to be driven", so residential roads have narrowing parts and flower pots and stuff to make them "look slow", while the large feeder roads are wide open and straight, to keep traffic moving. Separating pedestrians and bikes from cars. Safer intersections, with turning lanes and clearing lines of sight.


* Education. Higher demands on driver education. Mor traffic education in schools.


* Alcohol. Zero alcohol limit. Sure, you could probably drive on a weak beer, but having a zero limit sends out a clear message "Don't mix alcohol and driving. At all!".


* Legislation. Better adapted speeds, changed rules for right of way, changed rules for changing lanes and so on. Basically, risk situations were identified and legislation changed to make them safer.


* Better cars. Actually, this has given surprisingly little effect on the number of accidents, as people tend to adapt. However, it has a clear effect on the severity of injuries once thay happen.



* In depth investigations of each and every fatal accident, to determine the causes, and, if possible, prevent it from happening again. Also, gathering of accurate statistics on the details of all accidents, for research purposes.


* Putting an economic value on traffic fatalities. The cost for society for a single fatality in the traffic was calculated to around 23 000 000 kr, about $3 000 000. The number, of course, is way higher if the victim survives with drastic disabilities. Now, this isn't, of course, done to put a value on human lives. However, that number can be shown to the politicians to show them that spending money on safer traffic actually saves money in the long run. If traffic safety becomes a positive entry in the budget instead of a negative, financing is much easier to get.


Sweden started this safety journey with the extremely visionary "Vision Zero". It was the vision that no one should be killed or seriously injured in traffic accidents. At the time, it recieved a lot of ridicule, because, as we all know, it ain't gonna happen. However, it pointed out a direction, a goal to work towards. Also, it clearly showed that we shouldn't set goals like "In year 2000, only 400 should die in traffic". The goal should always be that no one should die, and we should move as far as we can in that direction, given the budget restrictions. Someone explained it a bit like when you fling darts at a ringed board. You will hit maybe 6 or 7 most of the time, with some 8 or 9, and an occasional 10. But, you always aim for the 10, not the 6 or 7.


Now, Vision Zero has proven itself, and many other countries are looking at what Sweden did and trying to implement similar schemes.


Sorry for being long winded, but I work in this area, so it's an interest of mine. It's OK to skip if you are not interested.

Studded tires don't have to be on the list, only M/S have that distinction.


As for my selection, I'll probably go with any tires that have studs, are cheap and are more or less circular. I'll probably also go for a bit grippier tread, to give more traction in snow. I've driven with many different tires, and I can't really say that I notice any significant difference which motivates a higher price.

SWHouston

Troberg,

"skip if you are not interested"
Not a word, your comments on Traffic Safety are very interesting. Many just read along on Threads like this, but things like that stick in peoples minds. One never knows when he may be the author of change.

"I'll probably go with any tires that have studs, are cheap and are more or less circular"
I'm not sure just what you meant by "circular", could you explain ?

"go for a bit grippier tread, to give more traction"
The raised part of the Tread are often referred to as "Cleats", and, the separation between them "Groves".

Some general information...

The wider the Groves, the less life of the Tread. But not a problem if the Tires use are limited to winter conditions. The wider the Groves, the better they will dispel water/slush, therefore giving one the ability to control his vehicle at higher speeds when those conditions exist.

The directionality of the Cleats have an impact on control.

Cleats which are square with the direction of travel, have better stopping ability. Cleats which are set diagonally (lets say 45°) enable better cornering and dispel the water/slush away from the center of the Tire, diminishing the "Bow Wave", which is frequently the reason for loss of control.

Micro-Groves in the Cleats, enable better traction on Ice. Their direction can be had square to direction of travel regardless of the placement of the Cleat, or, diagonally (with that type of tread) improving cornering capability. Keep in mind, that Studs do wear down, and having the Micro-Groves as a backup, could be quite advantageous.

This is an example of a Tread Pattern, which is very efficient at dispelling water/slush, and the Micro-Groves are set at different angles, to improve control under all conditions on Ice.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....T&cid=R4334957

Troberg

Just joking. Basically, anything that's round is good enough. Square tires just make things shake a lot.



Thanks, that's new to me. English is not my first (or second) language, and tires are not my speciality, so I happily pick up every tidbit of information I can get.


Interesting info, all of it. I learn something new every day!

SWHouston

I have been accused of being a Tire fanatic.
That's absolutely not true.
I'm a zealot at best.

In the Tire/Suspension Forum, and other areas like here, we get quite a few comments about a given Tire being excellent, and another will complain that the one they choose was really terrible. Most times, after a few questions, I find that many just accidentally got the right tread for the right job, and on that other hand, they just didn't know what to look for, to get the performance required.

There are several features in Tires, which dictate the performance characteristics and most anyone can at least determine their needs as you have. Much of the confusion is that just about all Manufacturers make similar Tires, and it may come down to which Manufacturer is preferred, as apposed to the Tire its self. One thing that has been consistent is, "you get what you pay for".

Ha, I appreciate your humor.
But many who choose a mud/snow type tread don't realize that the wider the Cleats are spaced, the noisier the Tire is on dry pavement, which includes vibration as well. This further emphasizes the "two set" approach as you have chosen, and imperative when Studded.