Colt Hero

'02 Intake Manifold Project in Progress: Day 1 Problems (3.4L Base Model, 105k miles)

Actually Day 2, but who's counting.

Could use a quick answer on these questions so that I can continue.
Day 1 went VERY slow. I made steady progress, but it was painfully slow because I was documenting everything I pulled out and putting bolts, nuts, etc in ziploc bags. Plus, I struggled with some of the connectors - especially one that faces the firewall that I could only see with a mirror: it had a white plastic "rip-cord" to release it and I didn't realize you have to crimp the bottom of this piece in order to pull it up and out to free the plug so I cracked it off (oh well). Also struggled a bit with the accelerator cables, then the spark plug wires were WELDED in there, it seemed (one broke). Boy, there's a LOT of stuff that has to come off to get to these gaskets. Today, I pulled out the alternator, alternator mounting bracket, coolant bypass tube, and upper intake with gaskets, but ...
I cannot get the Power Steering Pump out!!!
I can't get it past that back fuel rail which has the fuel test port on the end of it sticking out. The ASE master mechanic at dtips.com said that if you take off the cover on the fuel test port (a simple slim screw-on cap) this gives just enough room to pull the PS unit out. I don't think so. I've tried repeatedly and cannot do it. Do you have to loosen or even remove the back fuel rail? It appears so. I cannot get the braided hose to clear the test port on the left side, and I cannot get the cast iron body of the unit to clear the cast iron of the block on the right side. It just repeatedly jams up because you end up having to twist it as you pull it up in order for it to clear the obstructions on either side.
Also, is this fuel test port thing the Shrader valve people refer to that I need to put a rag over and press in the center to relieve the fuel pressure? Looks like it is.
Another question: How am I going to correctly torque down the rear left-corner bolt that holds down the upper intake cover? This bolt has a nut in the middle and needs to be turned down until the nut is flush. I guess I need a DEEP socket attached to my torque wrench to clear the threaded stud on the topside of the nut? I used a box wrench to get it off, but I can't use that on re-install, can I?
One other odd thing yesterday (Day 1): I only got about 3 Qts of coolant out of the radiator when I opened the petcock, radiator cap, plastic tank cap, and bleeder screw. I thought this might've been because I didn't heat the car up beforehand to get the T-Stat to open, so I pulled off the lower radiator hose (at the engine side because I couldn't get the radiator end off - darn silver pipe in the way ... the tranny coolant line?). Again - nothing came out. Nothing to speak of came out when I pulled off the coolant bypass pipe, either. Is it possible I was THAT low on coolant, or am I in for a surprise when I finally pull out the lower intake? Could substantial coolant still be trapped in the block and come gushing out on me?

shawnvw

The coolant could very well be that low. When you remove the intake, there will be a bit of coolant, but it won't come gushing out.
When i do intakes on these, I remove the fuel rail before i remove the ps pump. I believe the fuel rail has to come off anyways, A tip for pushing it back together....spray the o-rings with a bit of intake cleaner and they'll just slide right into the ports. And yes, that part of the fuel rail is the schrader valve
If you are really worried about getting the corner bolt torqued properly, you should use a crows foot.

When you have everything apart, it is a great opportunity to clean places that you won't normally be able to get to.ie the back of the throttle body, iac, injector heads. Get a quality intake cleaner and somme rags and take your time to do a good job

HotSauce6226

Where oh where do i find this stuff....oh yeah www.naioa.com
TSB # 03-06-01-010B

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You will need to get these part numbers from GM.

Gasket Kit - 89017559 - includes upper/lower and everything
Injector O-Ring Kit - 12570621 - comes with 16 o-rings
Four Center Bolts - 11588914 x 4
Four Corner Bolts - 11588915 x 4

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Credit For this part goes to Filter @ grandamgt.com





Quote:

I'm gonna try to cover as many cooling system related questions as I can in this thread. Please read this completely before posting a new question. If you have any new info pertaining to this topic, please PM me and I will add it to the FAQ.

First things first, it's important to know that the cooling system is a closed system so technically it should never need topping up. However, in the real world this is never the case though and it could probobly be topped up every oil change.

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Parts of the cooling system include the radiator, water pump, coolant level sensor, fan switch, hoses, thermostat, and lower intake manifold gasket. The location of everything should be pretty self explanatory except for the coolant level sensor and fan switch.

The coolant level sensor is located on the coolant resevoir. Sometimes ot comes on and off while braking or accelerating. This is beacuse when you stop is cause the coolant is moving around in the tank causing it top drop lower than the sensor. Same thing when you accelerate. Simply top it up and watch it.

The fan switch is located underneath the throttle body. It reads the temperature of the coolant and turns the fans on and off based upon that. If you find your fans aren't turning on, first check the fuse. If it's ok, jump the fans. This is done by disconnecting the wires from the sensor and connecting them directly to a power source. If the fan runs, replace the sensor. If you still get nothing, you may have to look into replacing your coolant fans. NOTE: The fans aren't set to turn on right at the normal operating temp, but above so don't panic right away if they aren't on.

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PROPERLY TOPPING UP THE COOLANT SYSTEM:

Whenever you lose alot of coolant, it is important to follow a certain procedure when topping up your coolant. Following this procedure ensures your system is properly filled and removes all air from your system which can cause overheating. When filling, you must fill your resevoir with a 50/50 mix of coolant and water. Try not to mix coolant types. Doing so will void all longlife properties of your Dexcool.

When filling, keep pouring in coolant until your resevoir is full to the max line. With your coolant cap off, run the car. Your coolant will drop as it fills the system. Keep topping it up until it doesn't drop anymore. NOTE: Make sure your heater is turned on while doing this. This will cause coolant to flow into your heater core. In addition, make sure your car is blowing hot air.

This method is the best method. Our cars have bleeder valves, but this method is easier and works just as well. It is the preferred method of alot of other car manufacturers.

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Should your car have a leak, it can either be diagnosed visually, by adding dye to your coolant, or by doing a pressure test. You can find a leak visually yourself. The other 2 methods require certain equipment, but if you have access to the equipment are extremely easy to do.

LOWER INTAKE MANIFOLD GASKET:

The lower intake manifold is fairly common on Grand Am's. GM even released a TSB. Sometimes it leaks very slowely for a long time and sometimes it happens real quick and gushes alot of coolant out at once. It can either leak externally or internally. Externally just makes a mess. IF IT LEAKS INTERNALLY DO NOT DRIVE YOUR CAR AND GET IT FIXED. You can tell by pulling out your engine oil dipstick. If it looks milky, you have coolant in your oil. Coolant in your oil will destroy your bearings which costs ALOT to fix.

Parts you need to fix this include upper intake maniold gaskets, lower intake manifold gaskets, valve cover gaskets, 1 distributer plug gasket, and two EGR gaskets. If you go to the dealer and ask for the intake manifold gasket kit they usually know exactly what you're talking about and will get you everything you need. Note GM made some new intake gaskets that are entirerly black and have matal rings in them. Make sure you get these.

As far as I'm concerned this is an easy job, just time consuming. That's why it's so expensive. It is very labour intensive. You have to take off the entire top half of the engine and gut all the externals around it just to get at the lower intake manifold. Here's the run down on how to replace them, but please only attempt this if your are mechanically inclined:

- remove intake tube attached to throttle body.
- remove EGR
- remove coil pack and spark plug wires.
- remove upper intake manifold
- remove front valve cover
- remove alternator
- remove serpertine belt
- remove power steering pump (you will have to unmount the engine to get at some of the bolts holding this on. Make sure if you support the engine using a floor jack that you use a block of wood or you WILL CRACK YOUR OIL PAN)
- remove accessory brackets
- remove rear valve cover
- remove lower intake manifold
- loosen rockers and remove push rods (keep them in order)
- remove distributor dummy shaft to replace O-ring
- reassemble and follow the coolant filling procedure

* label everything and keeps similar items together so you know where it all goes
* get the torque specs for the engine. It is very important that everything be tourqed back to factory specs or you will be doing this job again
* everything except the block is aluminum so absolutely no over tightening or you will easily strip something in your engine. Then it's time for tap and dye
* if a bolt starts going in crooked, take it out. DO NOT FORCE ANYTHING IN. Go slowely if that happens. Once again, alluminum. If you don't do it right and watch yourself, you'll have to break out your tap and die set

TONS of pics can be found at http://www.grandampc.com/leak courtesy of djrkd

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WATER PUMP:

When the water pump goes there will be coolant all over the passenger side engine bay and you will find yourself having to top the car up on a weekly basis. Usually, your car will not drip all the time, but will gush a large amount of coolant out after driving it. Just one gush, then nothing. This is because it leaks under pressure. After driving, there is alot of pressure built up in the cooling system which has to be released. It is released through the weep hole in the water pump.

The water pump is seriously easy to replace. The Grand Am uses a core, not a full pump. Here's the run down on how to replace it:

- take tension off the serpertine belt so you can get it off the waterpump pulley
- remove water pump pulley (you will have to use something to stop the pulley from turning)
- you will now see the water pump core. Remove the screw holding it in and take it out
- clean gasket area
- install new water pump core making sure all holes line up on the core and gasket.
- reinstall pulley
- reinstall serpertine belt
- follow topping up coolant procedure

As stated, it's that easy. I can do this job in 10 minutes flat

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HOSES:

Hoses can usually be caught before they go by

Colt Hero

Shawnvw,

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping to avoid pulling off the fuel rails because I'm afraid of the O-rings. From what I'd read previously, it sounded like this can turn into a fiasco. If I DO pull off the fuel rails completely, do I then HAVE to replace the O-rings (b/c I didn't buy that part)? When you say to spray them, are you talking about the existing O-rings or new ones?

Are you insinuating that getting that corner bolt on the upper intake torqued correctly is not that important?

Yeah, I was planning on cleaning out the area underneath the fuel rails for one (lost of sand and strands of grass in there. Also, behind the PS Pump is pretty gross with sand and coolant forming a muddy mix. And under the throttle body - same thing (almost). I was planning on using a vacuum - being careful up top not to allow any sand to jump into the 6 intake holes.

More questions for tomorrow:

1.) How am I cleaning out the upper and lower intakes after I have them off the car? I bought 6 cans of brake fluid, and I'll be using a flexible putty knife for the flat edges, but what about the curved inner chambers that are full of carbon - like on the upper intake? Is that done with a soft brush, or do I just spray it liberally with brake fluid then hose it down? Also, how long is it going to take me to clean the upper and lower intakes? I've only got three days left and my progress has been near-glaciel thus far.

2.) After the lower intake is removed and I clean out the valley in the car where the new RTV will go, should I wash the valley down with transmission fluid to get any debris to wash down to the oil pan? I think I saw mention of doing this somewhere in my travels.

3.) Should I be replacing all the hoses - especially those two small hoses on the Coolant Bypass Pipe underneath the throttle body that might be hard to get at after everything is back together?

4.) Noticed this while trying to yank out the Power Steering Pump: My engine can be rocked 3/4" (maybe more) forward and back on the two front motor mounts. The mounts don't look bad to me. Is this play normal?

shawnvw

I guess my comment about the torqued bolt came out wrong.The only way to torque it properly would be to use a crows foot. You could use a swivel socket, but your not getting it torqued 100% properly.
you can leave the old o-rings on as long as they aren't damaged. Clean out the ports with a wire brush as there's usually a good build-up of crap in there. The comment about spraying the o-rings with the intake cleaner applies to either new or old o-ring. Spray them immediately before installing the fuel rail as it evaporates quickly. It lubes it up just enough to pop them back into place easily.
Cleaning the intakes is pretty straight forward, spray them down really good with brake cleaner and wipe them with a rag. If they are really dirty, you can let it soak for a few hours, then wipe it out. Use your putty knife to scrap off the build-up of sludge and carbon. If the carbonisREALLY stuck on there, just leave it. And of course, use sond sand paper to clean the gasket surfaces.

Cleaning out the valley with tranny fluid won't hurt anything. I have only done that if a lot of crap has fallen down. I always do a libeal spraying of brake cleaner all around the valley to dry up the gasket surfaces, and to drain any particals sitting there to the oil pan. Now mind you I usually used an oil treatment and just covered the lifters before evrything when back together.

As far as the hoses are concerned, If the only way to get at them is to take a bunch of stuff off, like the throttle body hoses, then it'd be worth it to change them.

The slight play in the mounts is normal and nothing to worry about

Colt Hero

Shawnvw:

Thanks again! I ended up going to the dealer and buying the O-ring kit because (even though I really wanted to avoid it) I came to the conclusion that I was going to have toremove the fuel rail. I'll be doing this in a few minutes, then pulling out the lower intake (and replacing the T-Stat and Oil Pump Drive O-ring). I might be re-using the fuel feed pipe and fuel return pipe (press regulator side) O-Rings because (unbelievably) the dealer did not have these! I'll check with the chains to see if they have them, but I don't expect that they will.

shawnvw

Something i forgot to mention about the oil pump drive, Depending on the kit you get, there should be a paper gasket for the top of the drive. use silicone on both sides of the gasket to make sure that it never leaks.

Colt Hero

No, no paper gasket with the Oil Pump Drive O-ring, just the O-Ring. I slipped the newO-Ring on, while leaving the old one in place because I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to slip the new O-ring over the toothy-gear w/o damaging it and I didn't want to have NO O-Ring at all. Once the new O-Ring was rolled all the way up, I cut off the old one and rolled the new one in place. I also added some RTV around the underside of the circular lip before pushing it back down in place.

Some other questions:

Lifters, Threaded Holes, Plugs, and Pitted Metal:
Four questions ('02 Impala 3.4L 105k miles):

1.) When you drop new lifters in, they should be oriented so that the roller on the bottom can roll on the camshaft below. But what is keeping the lifter from turning inside its bore? It seems like it's just sitting in there. And what happens if you accidentally drop the lifter in with the roller turned the wrong way? Will it swivel and self-orient? Also, I just pulled the old lifter out and dropped the new one in. There was already some oil in the bore, so I didn't add any more. Should I have added oil?

2.) What's the best way to clean up oily, threaded holes. I'm about to re-insert the cleaned intake bolts with threadlocker but the holes are still full of gunk. Do I need to buy a tap for this, and what size would it be if the bolthead is 10mm (or is there no correlation)? Could I use a small circular wire brush?

3.) The new spark plugs were spec'd to be torqued to 11 ft lbs. Is that right? Seems low to me. I pretty much turned them in by hand using the socket and extension and when I added the torque wrench it clicked immediately. I did a double-check to make sure, but it just kept clicking on me. Really makes me feel like they're not tightened in there.

4.) It appears that the only place my intake was really leaking was on the Power Steering side. The coolant passages on this side have the same oily scum that I would find on the underside of my radiator cap. The coolant passages on the Throttle Body side look pristine. The block metal here also looks a bit pitted. I've cleaned this area very well, but should I coat it with RTV before laying the new Felpro gaskets on top to fill in the surface? I'm thinking this might be why there was leakage on this side. Or maybe this thing is ALWAYS going to leak because the diagonal bolts are too short (or not tight enough).

shawnvw

1. try to get the lifter as close as possible to the right spot. It should self orient if you are close enough. As long as it isn't 90 degrees out, you should be fine. When i do lifters, I always use an oil treatment as assembly lube. You should be putting something on the dry parts for the first start-up. Oil should be ok, but some kind of assembly lube is best. I have heard of tranny guys using bearing grease as lube.

2. To clean out bolt holes, i've always used compressed air. You probably don't have acces to it though. You can spray the crap outta them with brake cleaner, then roll up some paper towel or a shop rag to get the excess fluid out of the hole. Any left over brake cleaner should evaporate quickly. And the head of the bolt has no correlation to the size of the threads

3. I can honestly say that i have never torqued a spark plug in my life. I have always done it by feel. Just snug them up. I just checked the torque spec on them, and it does say 11ft lbs for an existing head, and 15ft lbs for a new head.

4. This area of the black\intake is crucial for a good job. Put RTV in all four corners, along the valley, lay the gasket down, and put another small bead across the top of the gasket through the valley and into the corners again. Don't get carried away though. If using a quality RTV, it will last long than the gasket will. I always recomend using The Right Stuff. This stuff is awsome, and performs VERY well. found here----> http://www.neverseezproducts.com/gasketmake.htm

Colt Hero

Shawnvw:

Thanks again for responding. You're pretty much the only person who has responded. Maybe people are getting sick of my questions

1.) I discovered that the plastic hold-down bracket atop the lifters kind of forces them into a particular position with the flat edges facing the pushrods and center of the engine. I guess it doesn't matter which way the oil hole faces (left or right), or which way the clip is oriented. I used STP oil treatment, which was pretty thick, to coat the ends of each pushrod. When I finished re-installing those, I slowlydrizzled what I had in a cup across the top of all the lifters. (and along the camshaft in the center).

2.) I just went with the brake cleaner - running the bolt in and out of the hole a few times and wiping it off until it looked clean inside.

3.)I guess the spark plugs are allright at 11 ft lbs.

4.)I ended up using the black RTV by Permatex (sensor safe). The tube cost me $15 at AutoZone. It went down beautifully, but I'm alittle concerned about the gasket. Looking at the side of the block on the Throttle Body side, the very slim sliver of gasket that travelsup the edge of the "V" is recessed (not flush on the LIMabove andHead below). The other four corners look flush. I hope this isn't going to be a problem. Should I shoot a bead in there to flush it out with the block?