Bad Timing

Just came from garage the timing belt jumped? on my Aveo5 2004, and broke I was stopped at a light at the time so I didnt expect engine damage to the pistons is it. It starts but doesnt stay running, and has a slight grind after several minutes does this mean its done for. It actually sounds like the idle is too low. Is this possible and should there be a louder or banging noise of some kind to be not saved.

Robot B9

There is no shortcut here. Someone must remove the timing belt cover and put things right again.

At the minimum the timing must be reset, at max the engine rebuilt.

No way to tell!

Bad Timing

Yeah, I figured that in order to get to the next decision a new timing belt had to be put on. It got done and I was told it wouldnt start or stay going and it ran rough making noises.
I just went back to the garage to get a couple things from my car and while there I asked them to try to start the car for me so I could hear how it sounded. Low and behold a car that I was told wouldn't start and had engine damage ran... it wanted to cut out but no noises as I had been told it was making. I asked about this and the guy said he wasn't sure who said that to me (he wasnt the mechanic who had done the work he was off). I spoke to the shop manager and said I didnt hear any noises, yes it not staying running at first but in neutral will idle. I questioned about a compression test to see what cylinders is it are not seating correctly. They would not do a compression test as they had already come to the conclusion the engine is damaged and needed to be replaced. I asked about the car running rough, they said when they took it out for a test drive.... this is the car that wouldnt start now runs rough in low gear. I asked to be in the car when they pulled it out of the shop. It was like diving an automatic like it was a standard, start in neutral and gas brake to keep the rev up. It ran, no noises keeping it going from a start stop or vice versa only problem. I paid 400 $ for the job on the timing belt and did drive it home and took it to another mechanic. Car drove at 70KM-hour no issues. Only the start stop.

Whatever it turns out. ask your twenty questions and don't feel bad doing it. Im tired and this was the last pre christmas activity I wanted to do but, it could be worse I could still be at the other garage.

PS. I am a woman and I know enough about cars to know I was geting the run around. We'll see how it turns out but, a new head may be in the future for this car, but I can't see it being a new engine... will see.

Robot B9

Ok, I will give you my best guess as to what is going on:

When these timing belts break (or jump even a little) its almost certain that valves will hit the pistons. In the worst case a valve will be broken and will bounce around in the engine and destroy it.

But more often a valve will just get bent a little. The engine (after the timing belt is made right again) may still run.

Mechanics know this. They also know that the head has to come off and be rebuilt. Doing a compression test, while a cheap and simple test, would be a waste of time and money.

Replacing the timing belt on your car was a bit of a risk, it was possible that it would be ok after the new belt was put on. It was the only way to tell what is going on. And it was not a total waste of money, when the head is replace this "new" belt can be re-used.

Your car may run for quite a while as it is. It might not have the power it used to and it might not pass smog tests. At some point the head will have to be replaced or rebuilt. It would be best to have this work done sooner if you have the money. if not you could start saving money for the job.

Not sure if you saw the page I did on replacing the timing belt, it really was a fun job: http://home.earthlink.net/~aveobot/id1.html

About where are you located?

dgjack99

Need a good and honest mechanic in West Frankfort Il., I live Cumming Ga. and my daughter is going to school there in Il. I bought two of these cars for my daughters and it has happened to both of them. The first one broke around 55000 miles. It was some what repaired by GM. The car never ran right after that, and with many arguments with the Stealership and Gm reps. to no avail I gave up. So any way I had the dealer replace the second car's belt before it broke. It also had around 55000 miles on it. Last Saturday morning my daughter calls, was on her way to work and had just got on the interstate when the belt broke and the car only has 92000 mile on it. Not even 40000 miles. I do belive I've had enough of Goverment Motors.

Robot B9

If the timing belt broke its a sure bet that one of more of the valves is now bent and not sealing properly.

The head needs to be removed and if possible repaired. A good mechanic can dissassemble the head and find the bad valves.

These days it would be more common to just swap the head with a rebuilt one:

http://www.americancylinderheads.com..._-AC186C2.html

Bad Timing

Good news. Thats if you don't mind finding out someone was trying to at worst defraud you at best is incompetent at the extreme.

You know that timing belt I've been writing about....

I had asked for a compression test they refused, I found that when I asked to have it started the car sounded fine... but it was as if the idle was too low, I'm old enough to remember timing lights.

I Just got it back from another guy who found out the timing belt (that had been installed by the friendly neighbourhood Canadian Garage in South Whitby, Ontario Canada) was installed incorrectly. He did a compression test no signs of damage, it runs the same as it did before the belt went. The guy who fixed it only sat in it 2 minutes, started it and let it run before he said it sounds like the timing belt was installed incorrectly.

I am trying to get past my anger at being almost taken for another $2000.00 (on top of the $400 I paid for them to do the timing belt the first time) and just before Christmas.

I had been towed to that garage, and they must have thought they had me. Thank God I know a thing or two about cars.
I am going to go back and ask for a full refund as The Consumer Protection Act, 2002 says that if work is not done properly and further work has to be done to correctly repair the problem the first repairer must refund you your money or redo the job at no cost to you (if you are in this case dumb enough to go back to the same guy who wasn't honest or smart enough to do it right the first time.)

I will let you know if they are compliant, if not I will raise hell. These kind of behaviour is not only lacking in ethics but shows no integrity for how the company operates.

To all you good mechanics out there, your needed and appreciated more than you can imagine, keep it up. For the rest shame on you.

Robot B9

First of all you are very lucky, a broken timing belt almost always bends a valve!

Second, you are now sure that the belt and the timing marks are all lined up correctly AND that now the compression is acceptable? In a way this makes sense: if the belt is off even just one tooth on one sprocket the engine will not be right. After you have done enough timing belts (I have done like 15) its very obvious to look at the marks and know if they are lined up right.

There is never a good time to get ripped off with car repairs. I am not sure if you got caught by an evil mechanic or an incompetent mechanic, not that it makes a difference to your check book! Certainly do what you can to recover your money.

One last thing: It seems like there are two problems with replacing belts on these engines. It is important that a high quality "brand name" belt be used. I like Gates or Continental. Just haveing a high quality belt can help preventing a broken belt. Next, its also important that "other" parts like idler pullies are replaced too. A new belt with an old worn pulley is just asking for trouble.

So as long as your engine has a good belt and the "other" parts have been replaced you should have no trouble reaching the 50,000 mile replacement mark.

trangert418

Happened at 49K. I have a 7 year extended warranty. Filed a claim. Car was towed to warranty's "Authorized" repair shop. Mechanic says it's the timing belt. Warranty company says they want full tear down of engine (so if claim is denied I have to pay for this. If the mechanic diagnosed it w/o doing this then what is the purpose?). Mechanic is telling me that what usually happens is the warranty company will ask for maintenance documentation and ends up denying the claim. I don't have anything that says the timing belt was "checked" at 30k which I think is what the service schedule says. But the fact is it says "replace" at 60K. I don't want to end up paying for this engine "tear down". Is that the purpose of requesting it? To bully me into dropping the claim?

Robot B9

They do the tear down for two reasons:

1. To Bully you.

2. To make sure there is not any hidden damage.

You might want to suggest that it would be more resonable to remove just the cylinder head first. If there is no other damage (other then some bent valves) there could be no reason to go any further. Repairs can be made and it will be cheaper for everyone.