tech2

what i see are people following the oil life monitor and disregarding severe service. all things equal for maintenance...for longevity non afm will outlast afm engines all day. all this cost for 4% mpg

mountainmanjoe

I know what you mean. There is a lot of ignorance out there. No doubt about that. You being a mechanic, I can only imagine how often you must just shake your head.

I've met the "gas & go" type people. I watch "just rolled in" and "mechanical nightmares", so I see the horrors of what people are capable of doing to their vehicles.

But it really seems like there's an issue with these engines. And it's not a shocker. It's a new technology. It creates all kinds of imbalances. Other manufacturers have had their headaches with cylinder deactivation too.
You have a whole range of types of owners, right. Neglecters at one end, OCD weekend oil changers at the other. But most people fall in the middle. Engines needs to be able to tolerate a little but of abuse. They should be designed with a bit of margin for imperfect conditions. They can't just fall apart catastrophically. And even if you take care of them, the design just isn't good and that doesn't lead to good durability and reliability. Sometimes manufacturers just cut it too close or make things too complicated.

I've owned GM cars all my life. I'm on my 4th or 5th. I like them .. they suited my needs and look decent. I'm used to them and they're easy to work on for me. But what I see is a decline in quality and reliability. So I can understand the frustration from the other side as well. GM certainly isn't alone in this, and they're not the worst, but in some ways they sure are at the front of the pack.

mountainmanjoe

I thought that the monitor is supposed to factor in driving conditions that require shorter intervals? (temps, idling, speed, engine load, etc.)
Also, hasn't this system evolved over time? Maybe the early ones were junk, but by now they are reliable.
The monitor on my 2013 seems to be pretty good, usually reminding me right around 200 engine hrs run time or 5,000 miles. Oil is never sludgy or smelly.


exactly. To me it seems like a kludgy hack to keep the regulators happy. i would rather spend a tiny bit more on fuel to keep the vehicle going longer.

tech2

well, the next gen of fleet fuel savings/ie corporate tax saving are coming soon....no more v8s....6cylinder turbos. will see if smaller displacement boosted engines fair better than normally aspirated....what you putting yr money on?

Gumby22

It was easy to get flabbergasted by customer choices and shake my head at first - now I’m just numb to it. I’ve learned customers get very nervous when their mechanics face is overcome with the “You dumbass” look and my eyes glaze over because I have to process the level of dumb that just entered my brain.

Sometimes I get it - money is tight and a choice between one repair or several has to be made because they just can’t afford it. My father fixed EVERYTHING when I was growing up because we didn’t have a lot of money. That, I understand.

And sometimes it’s just like “Are you f***ing with me right now?”

A few years ago I had one customer that asked for a complete, bumper to bumper inspection on a 2000 Audi. As a rust belt car it wasn’t in the best condition. I can’t remember everything I found but I do remember recommending steering and suspension work, brakes and tires; of which, the tires were probably the most important thing it needed because they were nearly bald and dry rotting. The customer’s response was “Do everything but the tires. My daughter is taking it to school (1500 miles away) in the fall and I want it to be safe.” It was all I could do not to let my jaw hit the floor.

And you said it all - it’s a new technology, relatively speaking - and oftentimes this is just the “growing pains” that result. Chrysler also has issues with their cylinder shut off systems, only their lifters tend to lock up and grind down the camshaft lobes.

The oil life monitor, according to GM, uses 3 “pathways” to determine oil life. They say it’s been the same since 2010 when the system was introduced. Search for GM document PIP5282A for more complete information.

Path 1) A fixed number of engine revolutions with adjustments made depending on oil temperature.

Path 2) A maximum mileage of 7,500 under ideal operating conditions.

Path 3) A max time span of 1 year from the last reset.

Oil leaks from every single sealing point imaginable.

I’ve serviced several Cruze turbo engines as well as Ford eco boost engines (from a component and assembly aspect, they’re identical) and neither one seems to hold oil past 30,000 - the valve cover gaskets especially.

Here’s how one of my instructors put it when we were discussing turbo vs cylinder shut off in class and how it will affect longevity (this is as best I can recall) -

{The cylinder shut off takes a big engine (V8) and makes it “think” it’s little by disabling cylinders.

The turbo takes a little engine (4 or 6 cylinder) and makes it “think” it’s big by forcing more air into the combustion chamber.

Which do you think will last longer? A big engine that thinks it’s little or a little engine that thinks it’s big?}

His point was that the turbo engines are going to be overworked, and I think he was right. There’s more blow by and crankcase pressure to be managed with turbos, so the oil needs to be changed much more frequently.

mountainmanjoe

that's a rhetorical question right?

mountainmanjoe

Thanks! I've always wondered about that.

I'm guessing that each different engine has it's own quantity of revolutions that it counts down. I wonder how many it takes for my 5.3

mountainmanjoe

Well, maybe the lawsuit will keep growing to include the current engines too.
Sure enough, if you thought these lawsuits were frivolous, here is at least a little proof

2023 - 5th generation L87 Ecotec3 engine. (direct injected, cylinder deactivation)
https://www.bitchute.com/video/KNl8P9sxdSZq/


@Gumby22
These engine are barely broken in, so you can't wave your hand and tell me it's from bad maintenance.


Seem GM just can't get it right. These Ecotec3 engines were plagued right from the beginning.

Gumby22

YOU WILL LIVE MANY DAYS, BUT THIS ONE, I ASSURE YOU, YOU WILL RUE!!!

mountainmanjoe

haha
"These aren't the stuck lifters you're looking for "