Ecmsaretrash78

My bad if this is in the wrong area, first time here and really just came here to figure out why newer Chevys are so awful.
oddly I'm actually a huge Chevy fanboy, the only branded stuff I own is all Chevy stuff, my first and only vehicle is a 2nd gen Camaro and it will have a sbc in it as long as I live, hell I'm pretty sure I was even conceived in the back of a trans am.
Chevy is truly the only brand of vehicles I enjoy... Until my mom and her bf got a 2015 Silverado.
This thing is such a headache and waste of money it actually hurts my brain. 176,xxxkm, the engine and trans mounts are shot, the lug nuts are swollen and falling apart, the lifters are eating themselves, the oil wreaks of gas and the exhaust smells like paint. And just to boot, it's been so poorly serviced it has the original ac Delco spark plugs and doesn't misfire.

While I am generally a hardcore Chevy enthusiast the fact the spark plugs out lived the engine and trans mounts, the lug nuts and the lifters I genuinely can not bring myself to advise anyone to buy a new Chevy or any new car really, save your money and rebuild an old sbc, even a 305 will last longer with less headaches and roughly the same power as a 5.3 ls if built properly, yeah it won't have the same mileage but the amount of sanity you'll save in lack of ridiculous maintenance is mind boggling.

Gumby22

I can appreciate your frustration given the situation, but the problems with the truck are clearly a result of lack of care and maintenance. Being a new Chevy (or any other make) has nothing to do with it.

I also own a high mileage 2015 Chevy 5.3 - purchased a year ago with just under 170,000 miles (273,000km). The service history showed it was well cared for. It’s in very good condition and has, so far, proven to be a reliable truck.

I will concede the lug nuts are a joke. I’ve had to fight them on GM, Ford and Dodge/Chrysler. I don’t think it’s preventable as it’s just the result of corrosion buildup between the cap and lug nut - they just need to be replaced when they start swelling.

oldchevy

Gumby is 100% correct. Any badly maintained vehicle will give you trouble.

Gumby22

“Trouble” is a relative term - many people have the attitude of not caring about anything so long as it starts, stops, and steers.

I had one customer that pushed a 2008(ish) 2500 6.0 past the 500,000 mark - the truck was in shambles (similar to the OP’s description of problems). Both exhaust manifolds had broken bolts so you could hear it a 1/4 mile away, the CEL and ABS lights were constantly on, and the chassis was in very poor condition. But anytime it showed up, we only fixed what we absolutely had to.

The customer finally called it only because the frame was starting to crumble. Had it not been for that, I’m sure it would’ve remained on the road.

Ecmsaretrash78

100% I agree with lack of maintenance being an issue with this vehicle in specific however I know for a fact the lifter problem isn't uncommon at all with these engines and a steel sleeve would be an incredibly easy and simple fix to keep people who aren't mechanically inclined like my mom and her bf the headache of having their only vehicle down for several days and spending hundreds of dollars on something that really shouldn't be a problem. Especially with modern vehicles being designed to be so simple you don't actually have to know anything about driving to drive them, back up camera got that, lane keep assist got that, abs and traction control got that, want to know if your engine is eating itself and your wallet? nah figure that out the hard way.
also well aware of other manufacturers using these cheap 2 piece lug nuts just not impressed with Chevy for following the heard, I can't imagine anyone really benefits from that except the lug nut manufacturers, one of the lugs off my mom's truck was so bad I couldn't hammer a socket all the way on and ended up damaging the threads trying to get it out of the socket afterwards which I'm not even joking took a propane torch and drift pin.
Anyway most of this is fueled by the fact I vouched for them to get a Chevy after having nothing but headaches with their 2006 ram turbo diesel, that truck had been fully rebuilt short of the body and engine, if I had known the quality of new Chevys I would have told them to keep rebuilding the dodge at least Cummins generally still last forever and a day even without a healthy maintenance routine

Gumby22

[FYI - I’m just trying to continue the discussion - I’m not trying to argue or gaslight or anything like that. I’ve been a professional tech for about 6.5 years now and most of my customers drive GM vehicles, so I have a lot of relevant experience on this topic as I’ve diagnosed/serviced/repaired several dozen of these engines.]

The lifter issue was more of a problem in the 2007-2013 models - those were the first generation to utilize cylinder shut off. Even then, by 2011-2012, GM had figured out and corrected the primary issues.

The engines that use cylinder shut off are much more sensitive to the level, weight and frequency of oil changes because of the lifters that control cylinder shut off; and while GM started using oil life monitors to remind customers to regularly change the oil, many people just don’t understand how the monitor works and aren’t changing the oil when it’s due. Even with a recommended mileage or monitor, oil changes need to happen when they’re best suited for the driving habits of the owner.

If I had 2 customers that drove the same amount of miles in a year, but one of them was primarily highway miles whereas the other was primarily urban, I’d recommend the service interval for the urban driver be more frequent than the highway driver.

Would it be easier to maintain an engine without cylinder shut off? Maybe - but flat bottom lifters are also prone to collapsing when the engine isn’t being taken care of, so again we’re back to basic maintenance [or lack thereof] as being the cause.

There are delete kits available for the cylinder shut off system, but you have to remove the heads to replace the lifters.

And I’m not trying to defend GM engineering - they make plenty of mistakes - but so does Ford, Dodge/Chrysler, and many other manufacturers. But it’s not their fault if a consumer doesn’t care for their vehicle as recommended, either.

mountainmanjoe

Not really. GM was just ordered to pay $100M for class action involving AFM engines used up until 2014 (LC9)
https://www.autoweek.com/news/indust...pays-millions/

hot on its coattails is another lawsuit in courts now (Harrison vs GM)
"This suit alleges the valvetrain used in the AFM system is defective"
It affects trucks, SUVs , and cars from 2014 to 2021
( L82, L83, L84 L96 L86 L87 )
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-lawsuit.shtml


Even brand new AFM engines coming out ... still have problems. (or DFM as they now call it)
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/12...or-v8-engines/

"GM Experiencing An Increasing Amount Of V8 Engine Valve Lifter Issues"
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/07...lifter-issues/
( L87, LT1, LT2, LT4, L82, L84, and L8T)

I've heard from GM techs saying they already come messed up from the factory, and the dealerships have to tear apart the engines before they can even sell them.

So the problems are far from over. Couple that with the massive decline in assembly quality. The post bankruptcy "new GM" is a joke. I can't recommend GM to anybody any more.

There are people in this forum with cratered engines due to this
https://chevroletforum.com/forum/tah...0miles-104764/

How can you say it's "corrected". Are ALL these people abusing their engines?

sure, if you compare to the domestics, or Korean cars or maybe Fiat. But that's not saying much.

Gumby22

I started this response, got interrupted, and accidentally posted with just the image. Such is the life for one such as me with clumsy fingers.

mountainmanjoe - I can’t speak to any of the new, low mileage engines with the DFM system, so I think that was just a misunderstanding. It seemed clear to me that I was referring only to the AFM engines (yes they’re basically the same system but GM uses different terms so I’ll use those as a distinction). After skimming the thread you linked, there’s for sure an issue with the newer engine components.

I also had no idea about the lawsuits - I don’t pay attention to current events because there’s just too much BS in the media. What little news I hear is on the radio during my commute - I just don’t have the head space, or patience, for everything happening in this world.

I also wouldn’t consider the action of filing a lawsuit to be proof of faulty manufacturing - meaning, just because a person or group of people decided to take GM to court doesn’t mean GM is automatically at fault. Generally speaking, people are not very reasonable, especially if it means they don’t get what they think they deserve. Out of the people involved with the $100M settlement, I’m curious how many of them actually cared for the engine properly and how many jumped on the bandwagon because they thought it would benefit them somehow.

I never said people were “abusing” their engines - to me there’s a difference between abusing an engine and just not taking care of it, whether due to ignorance or choice. As a tech that’s seen several AFM engines ranging from 2007-2016, I can say with certainty that lack of maintenance is the primary reason for the failures in most cases. Anytime I remove a valve cover to check for mechanical problems causing misfires, there’s sludge buildup on the heads. Sometimes it’s heavy and sometimes it’s not, but the mere presence of sludge alone indicates the oil is not being changed often enough, or, in some cases, the oil level isn’t being checked between oil changes and it’s dropping below the minimum safe level.

I wouldn’t classify that as abusing an engine, but it’s certainly not taking care of it, either.

And you also have to consider the people who haven’t had any problems with their AFM engines - mine being one of them. I got a complete carfax report on my truck when I bought it with 169xxx miles. All of the maintenance was performed as recommended and there’s no history of any major mechanical repairs. I can’t be the only person in the world who happens to not have problems with this system, so it’s not unreasonable to think that many people who are having problems are, at least, in part, responsible for the failure through lack of care.

Which manufacturer would you recommend I compare this to?? I can only speak from my experience, which is primarily with GM, Ford and Dodge/Chrysler. I do work on some foreign makes as well and they all have their problems. If they didn’t, there’d be no reason for recalls or TSB’s.

I’m not trying to absolve GM of any responsibility, but I also won’t pretend that many people aren’t responsible for their own problems, either.

mountainmanjoe

you said "The lifter issue ... by 2011-2012, GM had figured out and corrected the primary issues." . So no you didn't make it clear.


yes there is a lot of BS that I ignore as well, but I didn't hear about it from the media.
I heard about it through mechanic discussions online.
I posted the lawsuits, because they're easy to find, make the point, and I didn't save any the discussions to my computer.



It can't be totally fabricated. The judge can award very damaging settlements, so you better believe GM will bring their best lawyers and evidence to defend themselves court.
Of course there will be people who jump the bandwagon, but generally speaking the standard for proof in a court is much higher than between you and your buddies. I think we can say that there would be no case if there was no defect.

Surely there will be some, but I think they will be in the minority. I don't think judges are that stupid.

semantics. I consider failing to maintain something to be abusing it.

I'm sure it happens. But lifters should not need to be replaced straight from the factory.


I never claimed that 100% of engines get this issue.
But it seems to be significant enough that there are multiple lawsuits , and GM themselves are having to mitigate the problem.

Of course not . You could be one of hundreds, thousands even. But how many MILLIONS of vehicles with these engines are sold? Your anecdote of one vehicle is nice, but don't you think the more important statistic is the total nation-wide failure rate?
If you're buying a new vehicle, isn't THAT what matters most? And are you willing to play that lottery with your hard earned money? I think that even if the chance of lifter failure was only 1 in 100, I would still avoid that vehicle.

Gumby22

MMJ - You make some fair points; and in attempting to prove my points, I was failing to see some obvious things. My bad.

It just frustrates me that people want to blame manufacturers for all the problems they experience with their vehicles, especially if they’ve so clearly been negligent about maintenance and repairs. To me it’s the same level as not taking responsibility for your actions when they’ve directly resulted in pain and suffering, for yourself or others.

I’ve never been blind to faulty manufacturing - whatever the reason (cost, neglect, inexperience, etc), it happens and when it does, it should be made right by the manufacturer. But I also want people to understand how the treatment of their vehicle can affect its longevity as well.

As usual it’s been good having a discussion/debate with you. Thanks for screwing my head on tight again.