Switching to Synthetic
December 27th, 2015, 6:51 PM
#11
I don't bother with the top tier thing, as it is not readily available in my area. I would have to drive to another town to be able to get it. I am not about to run all over God's creation looking for a top tier pump. I will drop in a couple of bottles of Tecron every 6 months, but that is it.
I don't go by the OLM. Just me. It can't account for everything (like if I am operating on dusty roads, which I do), so I just use a simple 5000-6000 mile oil change methodology and leave it at that. I do use a synthetic that I get from my commercial oil supplier, but would have no problem using a blend. It isn't on the official "approved" dexos1 list, but states it is compliant with the spec. I know anyone could just say they are compliant, but the brand I use, Schaeffer, has been making lube oils longer that anyone in N. America, since 1839, developed the lubes for the Apache Attack Helicopter and M1 Abrams tank, and even makes some stuff for Shell Oil that they couldn't quite get worked out right to meet a customer need. And they are in the top 500 most technologically advanced companies in America. So I figure when they say it meets a specification, it is probably true.
I don't go by the OLM. Just me. It can't account for everything (like if I am operating on dusty roads, which I do), so I just use a simple 5000-6000 mile oil change methodology and leave it at that. I do use a synthetic that I get from my commercial oil supplier, but would have no problem using a blend. It isn't on the official "approved" dexos1 list, but states it is compliant with the spec. I know anyone could just say they are compliant, but the brand I use, Schaeffer, has been making lube oils longer that anyone in N. America, since 1839, developed the lubes for the Apache Attack Helicopter and M1 Abrams tank, and even makes some stuff for Shell Oil that they couldn't quite get worked out right to meet a customer need. And they are in the top 500 most technologically advanced companies in America. So I figure when they say it meets a specification, it is probably true.
January 1st, 2016, 7:25 AM
#13
That is probably true. It is all about cost benefit ratios and such. Schaeffer's primary market is not the average consumer, but trucking, agriculture, construction, etc. It makes sense to jump thru the dexos1 certification hoops when one is trying to compete with everything else on the shelf at Wally World or the auto parts store. But the dexos1 standards are well known and very easy for many full synthetics to comply with. One of the major features of an oil that meets the dexos1 compatibility is that is has a NOACK (burn off) rate of less than 12%. Even something like Pennzoil's gas to liquid synthetic oils are beating that standard by several margins.
One thing that as always surprised me though. GM really promotes flex fuel vehicles, but the dexos1 spec is lousy compared to the ILSAC GF-5 spec when it comes to dealing with ethanol. And there are several oils that meet the GF-5 spec but do not claim to meet the dexos1 spec. I guess it is good that the Schaeffer I use claims to meet and exceed API SN, ILSAC GF-5, and dexos1 specs. Covers all the bases.
And even GM has a TSB out that states clearly that one can substitute a ILSAC GF-5 oils for dexos1 oil. That TSB has been out since 2014. So the dexos1 thing is not as written into stone as the "required" standard by GM. Lets face it, the reason that GM does this kind of thing is to hopefully make owners think about what they are putting in their engines and not buy some goofy oil made from pig snot by Joe and Harry in their garage. If folks look for the dexos label, at least they will be buying something that meets the minimum standard. I understand GM's motivation, I just don't feel the need to worship at the dexos1 alter.
One thing that as always surprised me though. GM really promotes flex fuel vehicles, but the dexos1 spec is lousy compared to the ILSAC GF-5 spec when it comes to dealing with ethanol. And there are several oils that meet the GF-5 spec but do not claim to meet the dexos1 spec. I guess it is good that the Schaeffer I use claims to meet and exceed API SN, ILSAC GF-5, and dexos1 specs. Covers all the bases.
And even GM has a TSB out that states clearly that one can substitute a ILSAC GF-5 oils for dexos1 oil. That TSB has been out since 2014. So the dexos1 thing is not as written into stone as the "required" standard by GM. Lets face it, the reason that GM does this kind of thing is to hopefully make owners think about what they are putting in their engines and not buy some goofy oil made from pig snot by Joe and Harry in their garage. If folks look for the dexos label, at least they will be buying something that meets the minimum standard. I understand GM's motivation, I just don't feel the need to worship at the dexos1 alter.
Last edited by Cowpie; January 1st, 2016 at 7:33 AM.
January 3rd, 2016, 6:19 PM
#14
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I have a 99 Silverado 5.3L with 234,000 on it. I use AmsOil 5W30 year round. I live in MN where it gets cold once in a while... I change my oil myself every 4000 miles. I like doing my own maintenance when I can. It's kind of fun getting my hands dirty doing it. I've driven this truck to FL and back and it only used about 3/4 of a quart for the trip. Between changes it might use 1/2 quart so I don't add any between changes. This truck starts at -20 degrees with no problems and runs like a champ. I had to replace the 4 wheel drive selector switch about a month or so ago for $218.00 but now the "Service 4 WD" idiot light doesn't come on any more and I'm good to go.
January 9th, 2016, 4:47 PM
#15
Sounds like good methodology. I have always went with the "if it helps you to sleep well at night, then do it" mindset. Some put way too much time in thinking about oils and intervals. I just keep it relatively simple. What you are doing seems to work great. I wouldn't change a thing.
January 12th, 2016, 5:48 PM
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I don't bother with the top tier thing, as it is not readily available in my area. I would have to drive to another town to be able to get it. I am not about to run all over God's creation looking for a top tier pump. I will drop in a couple of bottles of Tecron every 6 months, but that is it.
However I would encourage you to use Top Tier gas - I don't know how far the next town is for you - but I think your truck would do better on it...
And even GM has a TSB out that states clearly that one can substitute a ILSAC GF-5 oils for dexos1 oil. That TSB has been out since 2014. So the dexos1 thing is not as written into stone as the "required" standard by GM. Lets face it, the reason that GM does this kind of thing is to hopefully make owners think about what they are putting in their engines and not buy some goofy oil made from pig snot by Joe and Harry in their garage. If folks look for the dexos label, at least they will be buying something that meets the minimum standard. I understand GM's motivation, I just don't feel the need to worship at the dexos1 alter.
As far as Top Tier and dexos1 are concerned, I commend GM for adding this specification. The Europeans have been doing it for years and I'm glad the domestics have climbed on the bandwagon. It is good that a manufacturer supports the customer after the sale instead of looking for the next one. It develops brand loyality and a happy customer.
January 13th, 2016, 10:55 PM
#17
Well, for me, top tier is not going to be an option or a worry. I am not going to burn up a few gallons of gas just to go to a town that has it. A couple of bottles of techron or similar PEA based additive in the tank every 6 months will more than suffice. And even then, the higher levels of ethanol that I get from time to time, will do more to keep the system cleaned out than paying a premium price for top tier. I guess in essence, one is going to have to prove that top tier is essential. I have not seen that it is. I have not had a major fuel related engine or fuel system repair in the last 3 decades at least. Fords, Jeeps, GM, all of them. The topic doesn't even come up in our area. Folks just don't seem to have fuel related issues.
No doubt, they are good standards, top tier and dexos1, but let's look at this a little closer. GM promotes flex fuel vehicles like crazy. A simple look at a spider diagram comparing dexos1 to ILSAC GF-5, shows that GF-5 handles several categories better, especially ethanol. True, some areas, dexos1 is better, like turbocharger protection. That is a non issue with my 6.0L V8. But when it comes to fuel economy, emission system protection, E85 emulsion, GF-5 exceeds dexos1. And many areas, the differences are minute at best. Oxidation and sludge control, dexos1 has the upper hand, but not to the extreme. But since I am not keeping the oil in my motor for some extended time frame, those two issues are also remote, especially since I am using full synthetic, which by it's very nature, is more resistant to oxidation, viscosity breakdown, and sludge issues. And the brand of oil I use in my GM is made by the oldest manufacturer of oils and lubes in N. America. Since 1839. They developed the lubes for the Apache Attack Helicopter and M1 Abrams tank. They even make some specialty products for Shell Oil that Shell could not develop to meet particular needs. They are listed in the top 500 most technologically advanced companies in America. I pretty well trust them to protect my engine.
Irregardless, while GM or any other OEM may promote higher standards, and that is laudable, I have no brand loyalty to any OEM. I have long since outgrown that. From lawn mowers to semi truck and everything in between, I have seen what were "good" OEM's pull some stupid stunts over several decades. I only look at what will meet my needs, is what I truly want, and is the best value at the time. I am not even brand loyal to oils and greases. I use what works best in the application I am using it in. I currently use 5 different brands of oils, lubes, and greases for my various applications. Mobil, Chevron, Allied, Schaeffer (the oldest oil company I referenced earlier), and Amsoil.
Again, I contend, that GM promotes certain standards just so owners will stay a little more focused on what they are using in their vehicles, as there are a lot of people with seriously low candle power who will put stuff made from pig snot in their motor. Those of us that have to take lubricants much more seriously, primarily because of business related reasons, also are very diligent in what constitutes the particular lube product we are using. I have seen myriads of analyzed oil samples across the spectrum, and even some "approved" dexos1 oils are nothing but a big yawn when it comes to their base oil and additive pack formulation. A perusal of the Petroleum Quality Institute of America's sample testing of various brands and viscosities of oil show that just because a oil meets a particular standard, does not mean that it is the best product.
No doubt, they are good standards, top tier and dexos1, but let's look at this a little closer. GM promotes flex fuel vehicles like crazy. A simple look at a spider diagram comparing dexos1 to ILSAC GF-5, shows that GF-5 handles several categories better, especially ethanol. True, some areas, dexos1 is better, like turbocharger protection. That is a non issue with my 6.0L V8. But when it comes to fuel economy, emission system protection, E85 emulsion, GF-5 exceeds dexos1. And many areas, the differences are minute at best. Oxidation and sludge control, dexos1 has the upper hand, but not to the extreme. But since I am not keeping the oil in my motor for some extended time frame, those two issues are also remote, especially since I am using full synthetic, which by it's very nature, is more resistant to oxidation, viscosity breakdown, and sludge issues. And the brand of oil I use in my GM is made by the oldest manufacturer of oils and lubes in N. America. Since 1839. They developed the lubes for the Apache Attack Helicopter and M1 Abrams tank. They even make some specialty products for Shell Oil that Shell could not develop to meet particular needs. They are listed in the top 500 most technologically advanced companies in America. I pretty well trust them to protect my engine.
Irregardless, while GM or any other OEM may promote higher standards, and that is laudable, I have no brand loyalty to any OEM. I have long since outgrown that. From lawn mowers to semi truck and everything in between, I have seen what were "good" OEM's pull some stupid stunts over several decades. I only look at what will meet my needs, is what I truly want, and is the best value at the time. I am not even brand loyal to oils and greases. I use what works best in the application I am using it in. I currently use 5 different brands of oils, lubes, and greases for my various applications. Mobil, Chevron, Allied, Schaeffer (the oldest oil company I referenced earlier), and Amsoil.
Again, I contend, that GM promotes certain standards just so owners will stay a little more focused on what they are using in their vehicles, as there are a lot of people with seriously low candle power who will put stuff made from pig snot in their motor. Those of us that have to take lubricants much more seriously, primarily because of business related reasons, also are very diligent in what constitutes the particular lube product we are using. I have seen myriads of analyzed oil samples across the spectrum, and even some "approved" dexos1 oils are nothing but a big yawn when it comes to their base oil and additive pack formulation. A perusal of the Petroleum Quality Institute of America's sample testing of various brands and viscosities of oil show that just because a oil meets a particular standard, does not mean that it is the best product.
January 14th, 2016, 10:52 AM
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Well, for me, top tier is not going to be an option or a worry. I am not going to burn up a few gallons of gas just to go to a town that has it. A couple of bottles of techron or similar PEA based additive in the tank every 6 months will more than suffice. And even then, the higher levels of ethanol that I get from time to time, will do more to keep the system cleaned out than paying a premium price for top tier. I guess in essence, one is going to have to prove that top tier is essential. I have not seen that it is. I have not had a major fuel related engine or fuel system repair in the last 3 decades at least. Fords, Jeeps, GM, all of them. The topic doesn't even come up in our area. Folks just don't seem to have fuel related issues.
Again, I contend, that GM promotes certain standards just so owners will stay a little more focused on what they are using in their vehicles, as there are a lot of people with seriously low candle power who will put stuff made from pig snot in their motor. Those of us that have to take lubricants much more seriously, primarily because of business related reasons, also are very diligent in what constitutes the particular lube product we are using. I have seen myriads of analyzed oil samples across the spectrum, and even some "approved" dexos1 oils are nothing but a big yawn when it comes to their base oil and additive pack formulation. A perusal of the Petroleum Quality Institute of America's sample testing of various brands and viscosities of oil show that just because a oil meets a particular standard, does not mean that it is the best product.
Again, I contend, that GM promotes certain standards just so owners will stay a little more focused on what they are using in their vehicles, as there are a lot of people with seriously low candle power who will put stuff made from pig snot in their motor. Those of us that have to take lubricants much more seriously, primarily because of business related reasons, also are very diligent in what constitutes the particular lube product we are using. I have seen myriads of analyzed oil samples across the spectrum, and even some "approved" dexos1 oils are nothing but a big yawn when it comes to their base oil and additive pack formulation. A perusal of the Petroleum Quality Institute of America's sample testing of various brands and viscosities of oil show that just because a oil meets a particular standard, does not mean that it is the best product.
In the second paragraph you deride "people with seriously low candle power who will put stuff made from pig snot in their motor." How would you describe someone who actively ignores the top half of their motor but can rhyme all the additives and industry specifications and OEM approvals for a seemingly endless list of oil manufactures?
It is obvious that I will never change your mind or habits, but I suggest you look at the complete picture when reviewing your vehicle maintenance needs.
Next week I'll post a 3 page discussion on the importance of maintaining the correct air pressure in your tires, with a quick review of alternate gasses and their benefits.
January 15th, 2016, 8:28 PM
#19
I did say that... but I also said in all of my vehicles. You make is sound as if I meant every vehicle out there. A bit melodramatic. There are a lot of variables. Even a top tier fuel station can get contaminated fuel. Even then, top tier is not going to be of much help. And ethanol. I got your drift on that one. Let's see, I took a 1974 Pontiac Catalina with a carbureted 400 small block to 250,000 miles before the body finally succumbed to deterioration, and from the late 70's on, it got nothing but E10 fuel. Engine still ran great even though the car itself died. Same for a 1979 Ford Bronco with a carbureted 351M engine (dearly liked that vehicle). We have been using ethanol blends from E10 thru E85 for longer than most of the nation and there doesn't seem to be a hue and cry about it in my area. We even have regular and premium ethanol free readily available year round in every town around me, yet E10 outsells everything, by choice. Our hired help at the state capitol hasn't seen the need to force anyone to buy anything. Seems the memo about ethanol being a terrible thing didn't get sent to us.
But we can indeed agree upon one of your comments... you will never change my mind. And you post about using alternative gasses and such in tires. You do, I assume, know that there are a lot of people in areas that do not have ready access to nitrogen and such stuff, don't you? That is the crux of the problem you seem to overlook. Many of us do not have top tier and the other stuff that many city dwellers do. But it does seem rather strange how we can rack up some very serious miles on our vehicles and never have all the issues this stuff is suppose to address. I peruse the forums and hear all kinds of stuff that many of us "hayseeds" out here in the hinterland just never seem to experience.
But we can indeed agree upon one of your comments... you will never change my mind. And you post about using alternative gasses and such in tires. You do, I assume, know that there are a lot of people in areas that do not have ready access to nitrogen and such stuff, don't you? That is the crux of the problem you seem to overlook. Many of us do not have top tier and the other stuff that many city dwellers do. But it does seem rather strange how we can rack up some very serious miles on our vehicles and never have all the issues this stuff is suppose to address. I peruse the forums and hear all kinds of stuff that many of us "hayseeds" out here in the hinterland just never seem to experience.
Last edited by Cowpie; January 15th, 2016 at 8:32 PM.
January 16th, 2016, 4:35 AM
#20
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Lets see - you live on a farm - you have a universe of gas and oil choices - but you can't get Top Tier gas at the Kum & Go? looooooooooool
Your grandfather had a 74 Catalina? - I feel bad for him - air pumps, cat converters and leaded gas, HVAC probs, oil embargo and that 400 drank gas like an Irishman drinks Guinness. The list goes on and on
OTOH you sound like you are very interested in things of a mechanical/chemical nature - maybe a course at your local Community College would be an option for you.
As for this thread - I am done - it is devolving into something less than informative..
Your grandfather had a 74 Catalina? - I feel bad for him - air pumps, cat converters and leaded gas, HVAC probs, oil embargo and that 400 drank gas like an Irishman drinks Guinness. The list goes on and on
OTOH you sound like you are very interested in things of a mechanical/chemical nature - maybe a course at your local Community College would be an option for you.
As for this thread - I am done - it is devolving into something less than informative..