Asking for advice about an 86 silverado suburban timing chain slip.
April 28th, 2022, 1:26 AM
#101
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hello Henry,
I agree on your opinions, hopefullt something will yive to put things in a better place.....I saw there is a electric car that doesn't need a charger and goes 1000 miles, but again....who can afford one ? Regarding nuclear waste, there is a bacteria that eats radiation and neutralizes it, but not sure how much it is used.
On the suburban, I replaced the sensor in the thermostat housing, then ran a ground wire to the switch, but it was not much better after. I read there is a coil in the distributor that can act up and cause idle issues, but I noticed the knock sensor might need replaced too, I even replaced the dist. Vacuume advance, but don't think that could be the problem.I can bypass the ecm and go with a different carb, but I am facing emissions soon in may. We all got the covid mid April,and have been sleeping constantly, I think the kid got it using a small gymn at his apartment . I may have to take the car to a mechanic if I cant figure it out. Its the damdest thing. Embarrassing too, but in the mornings or first time I drive it, it idles till it starts doing this. So, I will let you know IF I figure it out. Gotta work on the ramcharger , ordered a carb kit, and some other stuff. Lots to do. Keep well, and send good thoughts that I will find the problem , and pass emissions, but they keep tightening up the standards t be harder to pass.
I agree on your opinions, hopefullt something will yive to put things in a better place.....I saw there is a electric car that doesn't need a charger and goes 1000 miles, but again....who can afford one ? Regarding nuclear waste, there is a bacteria that eats radiation and neutralizes it, but not sure how much it is used.
On the suburban, I replaced the sensor in the thermostat housing, then ran a ground wire to the switch, but it was not much better after. I read there is a coil in the distributor that can act up and cause idle issues, but I noticed the knock sensor might need replaced too, I even replaced the dist. Vacuume advance, but don't think that could be the problem.I can bypass the ecm and go with a different carb, but I am facing emissions soon in may. We all got the covid mid April,and have been sleeping constantly, I think the kid got it using a small gymn at his apartment . I may have to take the car to a mechanic if I cant figure it out. Its the damdest thing. Embarrassing too, but in the mornings or first time I drive it, it idles till it starts doing this. So, I will let you know IF I figure it out. Gotta work on the ramcharger , ordered a carb kit, and some other stuff. Lots to do. Keep well, and send good thoughts that I will find the problem , and pass emissions, but they keep tightening up the standards t be harder to pass.
Last edited by Jay Dee; June 10th, 2022 at 11:33 AM.
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oilcanhenry (April 29th, 2022)
June 10th, 2022, 11:48 AM
#102
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
Henry, got a new booster , found master cyl was leaking, so replaced that, but still the same. Took it to a mechanic for a smoke test to find a vacuume leak, but the guy is the typical too many vehicles sitting around mechanic....was to have done yesterday, but hasn't done anything. I bought a new no vacuum adv distr, for it, but havent installed it.hate dealing with this type mechanic....they are slow, and this guys on the phone more than working. Can't seem to figure out if it is a vacuum leak, have replaced all lines... but other mechanic says it is running lean, but doubt he has looked at it at all. Fixed the dodge carb, seems that was the problem. Need to adjust the idle after resetting float, think float was sinking, so I painted it with nail polish , seems to work ok now. Now the radiator is clogged and wants to overheat, so , now am working on that one. Still must replace ball joints. Really need help on the vacuum leak idle problem on the suburban. Now gotta do the ford 460 water pump.
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oilcanhenry (July 5th, 2022)
June 10th, 2022, 12:39 PM
#103
Vacuum leaks can occur around the throttle shafts on old worn-out carbs. And can be erratic also. Try spraying starting fluid or carb. cleaner around the shafts where they come out of the carb. base to test for them leaking.
I've had reman. carbs leak there also, they reman. everything except throttle shaft bushings.
I've had reman. carbs leak there also, they reman. everything except throttle shaft bushings.
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oilcanhenry (June 14th, 2022)
June 11th, 2022, 12:26 AM
#104
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
That's something to consider Repairman54. I took it to a shop that said they ran a smoke test on it.....said the intake was leaking at the intakes right rear corner. I had sprayed brake cleaner around it, and soapy water also, finding nothing, he asked if the car sat for any period of time, and I thought even though it had, I wondered how that could cause an intake leak, and didn't make sense. I contemplated trying again to see if I could get a response testing it my way again. That's a lot of work , but I started a 460 ford E350 water pump replacement today , might do the timing chain also.
The suburban passed inspection last time 4 yrs ago, so, might try to silicone it First to see if he's right. . I thought IF the distributor pickup coil was weak, it might be that....as the condenser end of the HEI module causes a click when not running if you touch the wires coming out of the side to the cap ( 3 wire) I know that condenser is for radio noise supression, at least that's what I think. I replaced the dizzys coil too, but bought the 16.00 cheepie .
TO oil can henry, it still needed the booster and the master cyl. Actually improved it some. I kind of felt the mechanic might have been hucking , as I think emissions said the electro magnetic fuel valve on top of the carb may not be working, am unsure if THAT could be the cause ? Module is a 2-3 .
Your shaft seal idea I will check, as I gave the guy a list of all replaced items. He said timing was good, but I set it by feel, and am unsure if the dampner slipped, I felt setting the timing should have been done first. I might be all wet , but....
, but I got strong feelings he may not have run that smoke test, just the way it felt it was difficult to get his attention, never once saw him work on anything. So , I need to, check it. Charged me 64.00. Sounded high for a smoke test. Anybody else getting any ideas ?
The suburban passed inspection last time 4 yrs ago, so, might try to silicone it First to see if he's right. . I thought IF the distributor pickup coil was weak, it might be that....as the condenser end of the HEI module causes a click when not running if you touch the wires coming out of the side to the cap ( 3 wire) I know that condenser is for radio noise supression, at least that's what I think. I replaced the dizzys coil too, but bought the 16.00 cheepie .
TO oil can henry, it still needed the booster and the master cyl. Actually improved it some. I kind of felt the mechanic might have been hucking , as I think emissions said the electro magnetic fuel valve on top of the carb may not be working, am unsure if THAT could be the cause ? Module is a 2-3 .
Your shaft seal idea I will check, as I gave the guy a list of all replaced items. He said timing was good, but I set it by feel, and am unsure if the dampner slipped, I felt setting the timing should have been done first. I might be all wet , but....
, but I got strong feelings he may not have run that smoke test, just the way it felt it was difficult to get his attention, never once saw him work on anything. So , I need to, check it. Charged me 64.00. Sounded high for a smoke test. Anybody else getting any ideas ?
June 13th, 2022, 1:25 AM
#105
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
I tested the intake for leaks with brake cleaner, showed it was leaking , also on carb gaskets. Going to try to seal it up without tearing it down. Will put a kit in the carb as gaskets need replacing. More later....i did see, someone had throttle shaft bushings for sale. There were 2 types. Thanks to all, and Henry, .... I am just getting off covid now too. Know how you felt.
June 14th, 2022, 10:22 PM
#106
CF Monarch
Vacuum leaks can occur around the throttle shafts on old worn-out carbs. And can be erratic also. Try spraying starting fluid or carb. cleaner around the shafts where they come out of the carb. base to test for them leaking.
I've had reman. carbs leak there also, they reman. everything except throttle shaft bushings.
I've had reman. carbs leak there also, they reman. everything except throttle shaft bushings.
Yeah, there is no reason not to install brass or bronze bushings on a carburetor throttle shaft, but like you said, they don't. It's not hard to do, but finding the correct bushing can be a chore. Like they say:" If you are going to do a job, do it right".
June 14th, 2022, 10:33 PM
#107
CF Monarch
That's something to consider Repairman54. I took it to a shop that said they ran a smoke test on it.....said the intake was leaking at the intakes right rear corner. I had sprayed brake cleaner around it, and soapy water also, finding nothing, he asked if the car sat for any period of time, and I thought even though it had, I wondered how that could cause an intake leak, and didn't make sense. I contemplated trying again to see if I could get a response testing it my way again. That's a lot of work , but I started a 460 ford E350 water pump replacement today , might do the timing chain also.
The suburban passed inspection last time 4 yrs ago, so, might try to silicone it First to see if he's right. . I thought IF the distributor pickup coil was weak, it might be that....as the condenser end of the HEI module causes a click when not running if you touch the wires coming out of the side to the cap ( 3 wire) I know that condenser is for radio noise supression, at least that's what I think. I replaced the dizzys coil too, but bought the 16.00 cheepie .
TO oil can henry, it still needed the booster and the master cyl. Actually improved it some. I kind of felt the mechanic might have been hucking , as I think emissions said the electro magnetic fuel valve on top of the carb may not be working, am unsure if THAT could be the cause ? Module is a 2-3 .
Your shaft seal idea I will check, as I gave the guy a list of all replaced items. He said timing was good, but I set it by feel, and am unsure if the dampner slipped, I felt setting the timing should have been done first. I might be all wet , but....
, but I got strong feelings he may not have run that smoke test, just the way it felt it was difficult to get his attention, never once saw him work on anything. So , I need to, check it. Charged me 64.00. Sounded high for a smoke test. Anybody else getting any ideas ?
The suburban passed inspection last time 4 yrs ago, so, might try to silicone it First to see if he's right. . I thought IF the distributor pickup coil was weak, it might be that....as the condenser end of the HEI module causes a click when not running if you touch the wires coming out of the side to the cap ( 3 wire) I know that condenser is for radio noise supression, at least that's what I think. I replaced the dizzys coil too, but bought the 16.00 cheepie .
TO oil can henry, it still needed the booster and the master cyl. Actually improved it some. I kind of felt the mechanic might have been hucking , as I think emissions said the electro magnetic fuel valve on top of the carb may not be working, am unsure if THAT could be the cause ? Module is a 2-3 .
Your shaft seal idea I will check, as I gave the guy a list of all replaced items. He said timing was good, but I set it by feel, and am unsure if the dampner slipped, I felt setting the timing should have been done first. I might be all wet , but....
, but I got strong feelings he may not have run that smoke test, just the way it felt it was difficult to get his attention, never once saw him work on anything. So , I need to, check it. Charged me 64.00. Sounded high for a smoke test. Anybody else getting any ideas ?
June 15th, 2022, 10:37 AM
#108
Administrator
I know that this has nothing to do with this thread and the problem but I saw both of these items mentioned, so thought I would add a little bit of info.
I know there are aftermarket suppliers for bushing kits for
carburetors because I installed a set on a friend's '66 427 Holley. Kit comes with a drill bit, reamer, and bushings.
WRT nylon coated timing chain gears: GM used them for years (maybe still do, don't know) for noise reduction. I had a '68 GTO that had them and my '73 Corvette had one. Unfortunately the Corvette also had a powdered metal crank timing chain gear and it decided to spit out a tooth into the chain. When the tooth reached the cam gear, it pushed it against the timing chain cover and acted like a brake which caused the timing chain to stop and strip off the remaining teeth on the crank gear. Only bent one valve but discovered that the top ring in that cylinder was broken. I know that that was not caused by the timing gear event because you could see witness marks on the cylinder wall where it had polished an area opposite the broken ring.
I know there are aftermarket suppliers for bushing kits for
carburetors because I installed a set on a friend's '66 427 Holley. Kit comes with a drill bit, reamer, and bushings.
WRT nylon coated timing chain gears: GM used them for years (maybe still do, don't know) for noise reduction. I had a '68 GTO that had them and my '73 Corvette had one. Unfortunately the Corvette also had a powdered metal crank timing chain gear and it decided to spit out a tooth into the chain. When the tooth reached the cam gear, it pushed it against the timing chain cover and acted like a brake which caused the timing chain to stop and strip off the remaining teeth on the crank gear. Only bent one valve but discovered that the top ring in that cylinder was broken. I know that that was not caused by the timing gear event because you could see witness marks on the cylinder wall where it had polished an area opposite the broken ring.
June 16th, 2022, 1:58 AM
#109
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
My thanks to all for every comment and suggestions. I am going to fudge it on this job by cleaning the intake areas, and using the right stuff silicone to attempt to stop the leak. I am going to put a gasket set in the carb etc, and try to buy time, as a bunch of stuff has come up. To top it off , I am replacing a water pump on an 86 Ford 460, and all was going well, till I found the last person working on it tightened the thermostat housing bolts too tight, and I snapped one off.. I thought about buying an inductive bolt heater before starting this, but didn't, now I'm in a pickle. But as usual , I will find a way. Send good thoughts that It will work out for me, and on the ramcharger, I rebuilt the 2Brl Holley , and now its running good, but the radiator was overheating , but I'm working that out too. On top of it all, I am in need of everyone to send good thoughts in general to help me overcome a brother who is attacking me legally from afar. Too much to explain, but just think to yourself that Jay Dee will have things work out for him. Doing so really has power in times of need. I would do the same for anyone for any problem in return. Again , thanks, and I know deep down, things will work out, even though in times of trouble, we never know how it will happen, but I know it will all be ok.
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oilcanhenry (June 16th, 2022),
repairman54 (June 16th, 2022)
June 30th, 2022, 10:04 PM
#110
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
Newest update on problem
We took THE suburban in for emissions test today, passed on all but hydrocarbons, supposed to be around 4, but tested a bit over 8. CO'S were good, so it can't be the carb, took it to a shop that was a schlock operation. They couldn't even put on a new wire set right + tied me up for a week over promises unfulfilled for when it was promised to be finished, as they put the shortest wire on number 6 on the dist. And had it tight against the manifold. Guy said he would time it free. I believe it must be the timing being too advanced, and know it was not timed. I spoke to a long time carb builder and I pointed out my theories, and one is that the dampner may have spun, and is why I can't see the timing mark when plug under steering shaft is disconnected and vac adv is plugged. I POINTED OUT it might be the pickup coil in the dizzy, as I bought a new no advance distributor for that year and model, but did not install, as it has no vac adv, but has the ecm 4 wire plug coming out , and the 3 wire up to the cap . If it is not timing, it has to be the distributor pick up coil, being bad. Since it has an ECM, it is supposed to work. That will be my second option.
my theory is I need to go to TDC, then see where the old timing mark is at compared to where it should be now. I can buy a new dampner and just replace it, but I also can just make a new mark on the dampner if it has spun, and time it to that mark 8 degrees before. This most likely is a timing issue as the guy I went to said he would time it for me, but in working on vehicles for my whole life, I know this guy can do the work, but I have never seen him ever work on any cars, he always delegates jobs to employees, some of which are idiots. There were 3 vacuum lines totally disconnected, and the tube from the valve cover to the air filter off when I picked it up.. All of which I reconnected. I reinstalled the wires correctly, and know he did NOT SET THE TIMING. He's a crook,and I will not return nor send him any business .
Now I have ten days to retest, and just need to find TDC, AND proceed. Unless one vacuum line is on the wrong spot, the only other thing I can think is that the cruise control doesn't work, and THAT vacuum unit might be bad, and losing vacuum inside. All other vacuum related items are replaced . Any other suggestions for high hydrocarbon readings ? Thanks again fellows.
My setting after 0 lash on the rockers in sequence was not quite half a turn, after 0 lash. Being an old engine I didn't want them too tight. Anyway, this is where I am at, and feel I'm on the right track. Being too advanced gets better mileage, but will try 8 before, and or zero as I have gotten varied opinions on the setting.
my theory is I need to go to TDC, then see where the old timing mark is at compared to where it should be now. I can buy a new dampner and just replace it, but I also can just make a new mark on the dampner if it has spun, and time it to that mark 8 degrees before. This most likely is a timing issue as the guy I went to said he would time it for me, but in working on vehicles for my whole life, I know this guy can do the work, but I have never seen him ever work on any cars, he always delegates jobs to employees, some of which are idiots. There were 3 vacuum lines totally disconnected, and the tube from the valve cover to the air filter off when I picked it up.. All of which I reconnected. I reinstalled the wires correctly, and know he did NOT SET THE TIMING. He's a crook,and I will not return nor send him any business .
Now I have ten days to retest, and just need to find TDC, AND proceed. Unless one vacuum line is on the wrong spot, the only other thing I can think is that the cruise control doesn't work, and THAT vacuum unit might be bad, and losing vacuum inside. All other vacuum related items are replaced . Any other suggestions for high hydrocarbon readings ? Thanks again fellows.
My setting after 0 lash on the rockers in sequence was not quite half a turn, after 0 lash. Being an old engine I didn't want them too tight. Anyway, this is where I am at, and feel I'm on the right track. Being too advanced gets better mileage, but will try 8 before, and or zero as I have gotten varied opinions on the setting.