New member with some Tahoe towing questions.
December 23rd, 2014, 2:02 PM
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New member with some Tahoe towing questions.
I've been doing a lot of research and noticed this forum has an active and knowledgeable membership so I decided to join so I can ask a few questions.
A little background. I'm recently retired. For the past 6 years I've been towing my '85 Mustang to the dragstrip, a 200 mile round trip, just about weekly during the season. I was using my company vehicle for this duty. At first it was a 2006 Chevy Express van 2500 with extended wheelbase and 4.8 engine, then later a 2012 Express van with the same specs. These vans did a great job of towing my car and trailer. In fact I put a total of 265k miles on the first van with no major mechanical issues at all, and at the time of my retirement had over 100k on the second one also with no problems.
Now I have to supply my own tow vehicle and because those vans did such a good job I want another Chevy. I would like to buy a Tahoe since my wife doesn't like to drive something as big as a Suburban, and whatever I get will be her daily driver.
I only want to spend around $10k so it looks like I'll be buying an '03 or '04 as those are the years available in that price range where I live. I should be able to get one with right around 100k miles on it, maybe a little less.
My trailer is a 15 ft open type and the car/trailer combo weighs a little less than 5k lbs. I'm assuming a Tahoe can easily handle this, and I feel the 5.3 engine should be plenty as the 4.8's in my vans was sufficient. My vans had 3.73 rear gears and that's what's in all the Tahoes I've looked at so no trade off there.
There are two things I'm mainly concerned with.
1) My vans had 155" wheelbase while the Tahoes have 116", quite a difference. The vans were rock solid with that long wheelbase and I'm a little worried how the much shorter vehicle will be. Remember my trailer is only a 15 footer though. Should I anticipate any problems?
2) My vans being 2500's had the 4L80E transmission and nobody has to tell me how good they are. Between the two vans I ran almost 400k miles with not a hint of transmission problems. I also made over 100 of those 200 mile round trips to the track with some steep grades along the way. Never a problem. However the Tahoes have the 4L60E transmission and I've read a lot of comments about failures of those transmissions, especially when subjected to towing.
What I do wonder is whether some of those failures might have been from people towing without a trans cooler installed. Every Tahoe I've seen has a tow hitch, but of course they don't all have the factory tow package which includes the trans cooler. There might be some who think the presence of the tow hitch means the vehicle is ready for towing and that might not be the case. Because of this I've limited my search to only ones that came with the factory tow package. I know I could install one myself if the vehicle didn't have it, but if I only consider ones with the cooler from the factory there is less chance some previous owner was towing without one thereby overheating the trans and shortening it's life.
The transmission is my biggest concern. I'm pretty sure the 5.3 engine is just a stroked version of the 4.8, and I know those are extremely reliable.
I would very much appreciate input concerning the 4L60E transmissions from those using them to tow as I don't want to make a big mistake here. After all I'm retired and on a limited income.
A little background. I'm recently retired. For the past 6 years I've been towing my '85 Mustang to the dragstrip, a 200 mile round trip, just about weekly during the season. I was using my company vehicle for this duty. At first it was a 2006 Chevy Express van 2500 with extended wheelbase and 4.8 engine, then later a 2012 Express van with the same specs. These vans did a great job of towing my car and trailer. In fact I put a total of 265k miles on the first van with no major mechanical issues at all, and at the time of my retirement had over 100k on the second one also with no problems.
Now I have to supply my own tow vehicle and because those vans did such a good job I want another Chevy. I would like to buy a Tahoe since my wife doesn't like to drive something as big as a Suburban, and whatever I get will be her daily driver.
I only want to spend around $10k so it looks like I'll be buying an '03 or '04 as those are the years available in that price range where I live. I should be able to get one with right around 100k miles on it, maybe a little less.
My trailer is a 15 ft open type and the car/trailer combo weighs a little less than 5k lbs. I'm assuming a Tahoe can easily handle this, and I feel the 5.3 engine should be plenty as the 4.8's in my vans was sufficient. My vans had 3.73 rear gears and that's what's in all the Tahoes I've looked at so no trade off there.
There are two things I'm mainly concerned with.
1) My vans had 155" wheelbase while the Tahoes have 116", quite a difference. The vans were rock solid with that long wheelbase and I'm a little worried how the much shorter vehicle will be. Remember my trailer is only a 15 footer though. Should I anticipate any problems?
2) My vans being 2500's had the 4L80E transmission and nobody has to tell me how good they are. Between the two vans I ran almost 400k miles with not a hint of transmission problems. I also made over 100 of those 200 mile round trips to the track with some steep grades along the way. Never a problem. However the Tahoes have the 4L60E transmission and I've read a lot of comments about failures of those transmissions, especially when subjected to towing.
What I do wonder is whether some of those failures might have been from people towing without a trans cooler installed. Every Tahoe I've seen has a tow hitch, but of course they don't all have the factory tow package which includes the trans cooler. There might be some who think the presence of the tow hitch means the vehicle is ready for towing and that might not be the case. Because of this I've limited my search to only ones that came with the factory tow package. I know I could install one myself if the vehicle didn't have it, but if I only consider ones with the cooler from the factory there is less chance some previous owner was towing without one thereby overheating the trans and shortening it's life.
The transmission is my biggest concern. I'm pretty sure the 5.3 engine is just a stroked version of the 4.8, and I know those are extremely reliable.
I would very much appreciate input concerning the 4L60E transmissions from those using them to tow as I don't want to make a big mistake here. After all I'm retired and on a limited income.
December 23rd, 2014, 3:14 PM
#2
I have an '01 Burb with the 4L60 transmission. 195k miles, original transmission, still runs flawlessly. She's had a hard life, too - ~15,000 miles pulling a 6000-lb trailer, also towed a 12-ft enclosed cargo trailer (3000 lbs). I also usually drove it like I stole it.
While the transmission held up fine, it's on its fourth rear end. The 14-bolt semifloater is, shall we say, less than optimal.
I'm not a big fan of towing much more than 3000 lbs with a Tahoe. Physics certainly is not your friend.
So my first piece of advice would be a Suburban 2500, or Silverado/Sierra, or Suburban 1500, in that order.
If you're really set on the Tahoe/Yukon, here's my advice:
Get the highest-ratio rear you can find. 3.73 is code GT4, 4.10 is GT5.
Get one with a 5.3.
Make sure it has a transmission cooler.
Upgrade your instrument cluster to an HD or Escalade cluster - it adds the trans temp gauge.
Get a diff cover with cooling fins to help keep that weak rear cool.
Check your weights on a scale to make sure you're not exceeding axle weight ratings.
Good luck, and congratulations on your retirement.
Oh, and please post pics of your race car. :-)
While the transmission held up fine, it's on its fourth rear end. The 14-bolt semifloater is, shall we say, less than optimal.
I'm not a big fan of towing much more than 3000 lbs with a Tahoe. Physics certainly is not your friend.
So my first piece of advice would be a Suburban 2500, or Silverado/Sierra, or Suburban 1500, in that order.
If you're really set on the Tahoe/Yukon, here's my advice:
Get the highest-ratio rear you can find. 3.73 is code GT4, 4.10 is GT5.
Get one with a 5.3.
Make sure it has a transmission cooler.
Upgrade your instrument cluster to an HD or Escalade cluster - it adds the trans temp gauge.
Get a diff cover with cooling fins to help keep that weak rear cool.
Check your weights on a scale to make sure you're not exceeding axle weight ratings.
Good luck, and congratulations on your retirement.
Oh, and please post pics of your race car. :-)
December 24th, 2014, 7:18 AM
#3
Burban
if you plan to haul that... get the suburban. it's just longer than a Tahoe, honestly driving them isn't that different...
In hindsight, I should have bought the 'burban.
You can tow more easily, haul more gear. it gets about the same MPG.
In hindsight, I should have bought the 'burban.
You can tow more easily, haul more gear. it gets about the same MPG.
December 24th, 2014, 7:34 AM
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I have an '01 Burb with the 4L60 transmission. 195k miles, original transmission, still runs flawlessly. She's had a hard life, too - ~15,000 miles pulling a 6000-lb trailer, also towed a 12-ft enclosed cargo trailer (3000 lbs). I also usually drove it like I stole it.
While the transmission held up fine, it's on its fourth rear end. The 14-bolt semifloater is, shall we say, less than optimal.
That's certainly reassuring that you had no problems with the transmission. I've been thinking that in the worst case scenario if the transmission does break I can probably fix it myself. I've never done an auto trans but do break the T5's in my Mustang fairly often and there's nothing in them I can't fix. If I had a decent manual I'd be willing to tackle the job of rebuilding an auto trans. So maybe the trans isn't an issue.
I wasn't aware that the rear ends were known weak points so thanks for pointing that out. I'm pretty familiar with the inside of a rear end as well since I rebuilt the traction loc in my race car before finally just switching to a spool. So I could probably fix whatever went wrong there as well. What usually breaks in them? Do the gears themselves chip or is it more a bearing issue?
I'm not a big fan of towing much more than 3000 lbs with a Tahoe. Physics certainly is not your friend.
For sure the shorter wheel base works against me. I never used a weight distributing hitch with the vans but have already decided that with a Tahoe I will need to invest in one along with an anti-sway bar. I'm hoping that will be enough to eliminate problems with the handling.
So my first piece of advice would be a Suburban 2500, or Silverado/Sierra, or Suburban 1500, in that order.
Those would all be better tow vehicles I'm sure. However what I'm trying to do is reach a compromise. We would like to replace the wife's car with a Tahoe so we aren't adding another vehicle with all the related expenses. She will not drive a Suburban as she thinks they are too big. I can't really justify buying a vehicle just to tow my car since now that I'm retired I can't afford to go racing as often as I used to and will most likely only go 6-8 times a year.
Those trucks are made of gold around here and are way more expensive than a Tahoe. Plus the wife doesn't want to drive a truck, and finally I already have a truck. I have a '91 F150 that I feel is just not reliable enough for tow duty.
If you're really set on the Tahoe/Yukon, here's my advice:
Get the highest-ratio rear you can find. 3.73 is code GT4, 4.10 is GT5.
In the '03-'04 model years I'm looking at they all seem to have the 3.73 gears, same as my vans had so that should be adequate.
Get one with a 5.3.
I'm mainly looking at Z71's and they all have the 5.3 which based on how well the 4.8 in my van worked should be plenty of motor.
Make sure it has a transmission cooler.
Absolutely! I will not buy one without the factory tow package which includes a trans cooler. I don't know how beefy those are but if I don't think it's enough I'll install a better aftermarket one.
Upgrade your instrument cluster to an HD or Escalade cluster - it adds the trans temp gauge.
I didn't think the Tahoe came with a factory trans temp gauge so I was planning on adding one. Do you think it would be easier/cheaper to swap out the cluster rather than add a stand alone gauge?
Get a diff cover with cooling fins to help keep that weak rear cool.
Will do. This is something I didn't know about so thanks for pointing it out.
Check your weights on a scale to make sure you're not exceeding axle weight ratings.
By using a weight distributing hitch I think I'll be ok on that count.
Good luck, and congratulations on your retirement.
I've only been retired for about a month but so far I don't see anything not to like about it.
Oh, and please post pics of your race car. :-)
While the transmission held up fine, it's on its fourth rear end. The 14-bolt semifloater is, shall we say, less than optimal.
That's certainly reassuring that you had no problems with the transmission. I've been thinking that in the worst case scenario if the transmission does break I can probably fix it myself. I've never done an auto trans but do break the T5's in my Mustang fairly often and there's nothing in them I can't fix. If I had a decent manual I'd be willing to tackle the job of rebuilding an auto trans. So maybe the trans isn't an issue.
I wasn't aware that the rear ends were known weak points so thanks for pointing that out. I'm pretty familiar with the inside of a rear end as well since I rebuilt the traction loc in my race car before finally just switching to a spool. So I could probably fix whatever went wrong there as well. What usually breaks in them? Do the gears themselves chip or is it more a bearing issue?
I'm not a big fan of towing much more than 3000 lbs with a Tahoe. Physics certainly is not your friend.
For sure the shorter wheel base works against me. I never used a weight distributing hitch with the vans but have already decided that with a Tahoe I will need to invest in one along with an anti-sway bar. I'm hoping that will be enough to eliminate problems with the handling.
So my first piece of advice would be a Suburban 2500, or Silverado/Sierra, or Suburban 1500, in that order.
Those would all be better tow vehicles I'm sure. However what I'm trying to do is reach a compromise. We would like to replace the wife's car with a Tahoe so we aren't adding another vehicle with all the related expenses. She will not drive a Suburban as she thinks they are too big. I can't really justify buying a vehicle just to tow my car since now that I'm retired I can't afford to go racing as often as I used to and will most likely only go 6-8 times a year.
Those trucks are made of gold around here and are way more expensive than a Tahoe. Plus the wife doesn't want to drive a truck, and finally I already have a truck. I have a '91 F150 that I feel is just not reliable enough for tow duty.
If you're really set on the Tahoe/Yukon, here's my advice:
Get the highest-ratio rear you can find. 3.73 is code GT4, 4.10 is GT5.
In the '03-'04 model years I'm looking at they all seem to have the 3.73 gears, same as my vans had so that should be adequate.
Get one with a 5.3.
I'm mainly looking at Z71's and they all have the 5.3 which based on how well the 4.8 in my van worked should be plenty of motor.
Make sure it has a transmission cooler.
Absolutely! I will not buy one without the factory tow package which includes a trans cooler. I don't know how beefy those are but if I don't think it's enough I'll install a better aftermarket one.
Upgrade your instrument cluster to an HD or Escalade cluster - it adds the trans temp gauge.
I didn't think the Tahoe came with a factory trans temp gauge so I was planning on adding one. Do you think it would be easier/cheaper to swap out the cluster rather than add a stand alone gauge?
Get a diff cover with cooling fins to help keep that weak rear cool.
Will do. This is something I didn't know about so thanks for pointing it out.
Check your weights on a scale to make sure you're not exceeding axle weight ratings.
By using a weight distributing hitch I think I'll be ok on that count.
Good luck, and congratulations on your retirement.
I've only been retired for about a month but so far I don't see anything not to like about it.
Oh, and please post pics of your race car. :-)
In street mode:
At a test and tune last year:
In action at the Friday night street legal bracket races:
Thank you for all your helpful advice.
December 24th, 2014, 7:44 AM
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We've been married for 37 years so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince her that she could just as easily drive the longer vehicle. That would be expecting logic to enter into a woman's decision making which ain't gonna happen.
December 24th, 2014, 8:34 AM
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All good points. But since we want to replace my wife's car instead of adding another vehicle, whatever we buy has to be something she's willing to drive daily. While you and I may agree that the extra length of a Suburban doesn't make it harder to drive, she has a phobia about driving vehicles that she thinks are too long.
We've been married for 37 years so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince her that she could just as easily drive the longer vehicle. That would be expecting logic to enter into a woman's decision making which ain't gonna happen.
We've been married for 37 years so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince her that she could just as easily drive the longer vehicle. That would be expecting logic to enter into a woman's decision making which ain't gonna happen.
My wife had the same concerns, even though the Suburban is really only a couple feet longer. So here is the fix......
JVC makes a double din radio that functions as a DVD player. With that screen, you can add a rear view camera, and viola, problem solved. That is what I did for my 2004 Suburban, and it cured her phobias about parking and maneuvering. As an added benefit, it makes hooking up to the trailer a piece of cake.
Good luck with it!
December 24th, 2014, 10:05 AM
#7
Re: Trans temp gauge
The GMT800 trucks (2000-2006) all have everything you need except the gauge. So if you install a gauge cluster with a trans temp gauge (either from a 2500 truck or an Escalade cluster), you'll have a functioning trans temp gauge. Plug n play. No muss, no fuss.
I know it's true with the Suburbans, I'm mostly sure it's true about the Tahoes as well.
I bought my cluster off eBay for ~$200:
The original on top, replacement on the bottom. You would need to have it programmed with the correct odometer reading. The eBay vendor did that at no extra charge.
The GMT800 trucks (2000-2006) all have everything you need except the gauge. So if you install a gauge cluster with a trans temp gauge (either from a 2500 truck or an Escalade cluster), you'll have a functioning trans temp gauge. Plug n play. No muss, no fuss.
I know it's true with the Suburbans, I'm mostly sure it's true about the Tahoes as well.
I bought my cluster off eBay for ~$200:
The original on top, replacement on the bottom. You would need to have it programmed with the correct odometer reading. The eBay vendor did that at no extra charge.
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December 24th, 2014, 11:59 AM
#8
nice
"Correct odometer reading" cough cough
lol
Well, I agree that many times the opposite sex is confusing... your call.
I don't regret my Tahoe, I just think that had I had the room in the garage at the time, the 'burban would have been the better buy.
lol
Well, I agree that many times the opposite sex is confusing... your call.
I don't regret my Tahoe, I just think that had I had the room in the garage at the time, the 'burban would have been the better buy.
December 24th, 2014, 1:30 PM
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Re: Trans temp gauge
The GMT800 trucks (2000-2006) all have everything you need except the gauge. So if you install a gauge cluster with a trans temp gauge (either from a 2500 truck or an Escalade cluster), you'll have a functioning trans temp gauge. Plug n play. No muss, no fuss.
I know it's true with the Suburbans, I'm mostly sure it's true about the Tahoes as well.
I bought my cluster off eBay for ~$200:
You would need to have it programmed with the correct odometer reading. The eBay vendor did that at no extra charge.
The GMT800 trucks (2000-2006) all have everything you need except the gauge. So if you install a gauge cluster with a trans temp gauge (either from a 2500 truck or an Escalade cluster), you'll have a functioning trans temp gauge. Plug n play. No muss, no fuss.
I know it's true with the Suburbans, I'm mostly sure it's true about the Tahoes as well.
I bought my cluster off eBay for ~$200:
You would need to have it programmed with the correct odometer reading. The eBay vendor did that at no extra charge.
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