Christcorp

Was thinking of replacing my headlights with LED bulbs, Has anyone here done this? Do you think it was a significant improvement? Do you recommend any brand bulb in particular. (Prefer ANY manufacturer that is NOT Chinese).
Thanks
Mike

tech2

mixed results....cheap brands appear brighter when looking at the lens but don't project well down the road. the bulbs were orientated correctly with the projection lens assembly.

Christcorp

Thanks for the info.

Trip

I have purchase the "fanless" Sealight brand from Amazon for 6 different vehicles now over the past few years. Just started seeing bulbs with cooling fans on them pretty recently, I would not purchase a bulb with a cooling fan personally.The vehicles I have installed them on, 98 Honda CRV headlights, 2016 Durango R/T fog lights, 87 F150 headlights, 2016 F150 fog lights, 2007 Sub Forrester headlights and fog lights, 2017 Dodge Journey 4 headlights, 2 fog lights. Really nice bulbs, large heat sinks, an electrical box on them as well, not sure what is in the box that is part of the headlight wiring, most likely electronics to control the bulbs. The way they install is super cool, read the instructions! The LED bulb assembly comes apart making the install so much easier than trying to put the whole bulb assembly in like the headlight your taking out. Really nice packaging, I haven't had any issues with years of use so far. The brightness difference is unbelievable! Not so much in the fog lights I have installed but the headlight difference is totally unbelievable. I am not sure on some vehicles like the 16 Durango and the 16 F150 for instance the headlights are the projector style super bright nice headlights from the factory and the fog lights were crappy old style bulbs so when you look at it from the front the headlights are super bright white and the fog lights were dim yellow old fashioned bulbs. Getting the LED's if the fog lights makes it look so much better. I haven't had any flicker issues or any other issues so far. The 17 journey was a 6 bulb install, 2 high beams, 2 low beams and 2 fog lamps, Sealight had a kit for the headlights and fog lights, super reasonable and looks so much better and really unbelievable difference on the road at night.

Christcorp

Thanks for the reply Trip. Curious if you or anyone else has had any issues with the "Legality" of retrofitting halogen bulbs for LED. "Technically" I don't think it's allowed. At least according to the the NTSB. Supposedly, cars build and designed with LED bulbs is OK, but popping out halogen bulbs and replacing them with LED is an issue. The reflector or projector lenses built around halogen supposedly don't project the same when LED bulbs are installed. I'm sure it's because most people don't know how to adjust the LED bulb ring to ensure the bulb is shining similarly to a halogen. Was wondering if you knew anything of this.

Thanks
Mike

Trip

In my state there are no laws on replacing bulbs in your vehicle. There are laws about having lights out and not working, adding off road lights, covering your lights, tinting your lights, the heights off mounted off road lights and colored lights. If you want to change your bulbs in the lights on your vehicle, you can change your bulbs. If you walk into an auto parts store there are lots of LED versions of bulbs available for headlights, marker lights, interior lights. I do know and have heard of some people that bought the blue tinted halogen replacement headlight bulbs that were popular in the 90's and were pulled over because they were to blue and resembled emergency vehicle lamps was the reasoning. I have never hear of and would be blown away if you were pulled over and they dug into your light assemblies on your vehicle looking to see if they were incandescent bulbs or LED. With headlights the biggest thing is proper adjustment. The projector HID headlights in some of these new cars are way brighter than the LED bulbs. With proper adjustment they don't bother anyone unless they forget to flip them to low beam when they are coming at you and you can get pulled over for bright lighting people.

I purchase direct replacement LED bulb assemblies so there isn't any type of adjustment to make it work with the reflector in the headlight assembly. The LED bulbs I purchase are for my exact vehicle application so they install the same exact way as the stock bulbs, have the same indentations, slots and bumps as the stock bulb so you can't get them in the wrong way. The stock bulbs in all my applications will work either in the right or left headlight, same with the LED bulbs. You just look how the old bulb goes in and that is how you install the new LED bulb. The old bulb comes out and the new LED replacement bulb is nearly identical to the factory bulb other than most of the models I have purchased the ring comes off the LED bulb and allows you to install the ring into your headlight housing along with any seal, covers, retaining clips and then the LED bulb twists into that ring to complete the installation which makes it so easy, I wish they would have made the stock bulbs work like that. The headlight housing is way cooler since the LED bulb dissipates heat off the heat sync on the back of the LED bulb assembly out in open air in the engine compartment. The incandescent and halogen bulbs heat is directly in the headlight assembly, you can feel the heat when those old bulb types are on if you put your hand on the headlight. I have seen halogen bulbs melt headlight housings and melt/discolor the reflectors and lenses inside the headlight housings as well.

Another great benefit of LED is you use half the power. So if you have 2 - 60 Watt (on hi beam) halogen headlight bulbs your drawing about 10 amps, where 2 - 30 Watt LED bulbs that can produce the same light output as those halogens and use about 5 amps. Less power, less heat, less strain on your alternator/battery yet the same or more light output.

Christcorp

I appreciate your response. This is definitely a tricky situation. Technically by federal low, most LED bulbs in cars are illegal. The ones installed at the factory are probably legal. This is because just about all states refer to federal law on this, and federal law states that headlights brightness is between 500 and 3000 candelas (3770 lumens based on the angle of projection). If you look at most all of the LED bulbs sold to replace halogen bulbs, they are bragging 10,000 , 15,000 , 18,000 , 20,000+ lumens.

Of course, the tricky part of this is that while just about all halogen to LED retrofit/replacement bulbs are indeed illegal to use, most times this law is not enforced. Most states only allow police to stop vehicles that have broken a law. That's why you can't be stopped and ticketed ONLY for a seat belt violation. They would have to be stopping you and ticketing you for another infraction and adding no seat belts as an additional charge. But the fact remains, until the federal government updates it's antiquated laws, headlights can't go beyond 3,000 candelas (3770 lumens). So yes, you can have LED bulbs, as long as they don't go beyond 3770 lumens (3,000 candelas). And if that's the case, then the ONLY THING you gain by buying LED bulbs that put out 3770 lumens, is that they will probably last for the rest of the vehicle's life. You'll never have to replace them. And they'll be WHITER 6,000/6,500 Kelvin. But you won't really be able to see any further. So it's a toss up. Plus, finding LED bulbs that are only 3770 lumens is difficult. Most companies sell bulbs all over the world. They don't care about just the USA. Also, if you go to Oreilly's and similar, you'll see H11 LED bulbs by sylvania for sale. But on the box (FOR THEIR PROTECTION) it specifically says "POWER SPORT or Fog Use Only". In other words, you can use them for off road use all you want, or for fog lights because those are aimed down at the road and fog lights don't have a candela/lumen restriction like headlights do.

Anyway, just some info. Again; it's almost impossible to enforce people using LED bulbs as replacements for Halogen. And most states consider lights as a "Non Moving Violation", so that means at worst case it would be a small fine and NO POINTS against losing your license. Just like any violation for a brake light or headlight out; it is a NON-Moving violation. Anyway, I've found a lot of info on this recently. Much of it corroborating each other and referring back to federal laws.Of course, we also know that sellers exaggerate their specifications in the hopes of selling more product. We don't know if they are measuring their "10,000 , 15,000 , 20,000 lumens" from a standard 25 foot distance; or directly AT THE BULB. Most lumens/lux are measured where the light is aimed so the main point hits the ground at 100 feet but measurements and adjustments are made at 25 feet. So, where are the lumens measured at???

I definitely don't think anyone is going to get busted for using LED headlights; "ASSUMING they have them aimed properly and aren't blinding oncoming traffic". But knowing the law is important. Not knowing, and believing that if something weren't legal to use, it wouldn't able to be sold/bought, is not a legal defense unfortunately. Anyway just thoughts.

Mike

Trip

No laws pertaining to the brightness of headlight bulbs like that here in WA state. They did adopt the federal standard. An article from our State Patrol in 2011 below. With LED and HID in all the new cars how are they going to do anything if you make your old car the same way? It is much safer, as long as they are aimed correctly and not a strange color your perfectly fine. Find a reputable LED light manufacture, go to there bulb finder and input your vehicle, if they have selections get some. If nobody makes anything for your vehicle then I would probably steer clear.Police mainly look for vehicles with novelty lights, or lights specifically designated for off-road, that are being used on the highways, Coon said. But he adds that it is very difficult for police to tell, just by looking, whether headlights that are the standard white or clear color are outside of federal standards.

Without getting into too much inside baseball, here's what you need to know to make sure your headlights are OK.

Original parts already meet the federal standards, Coon said. Problems can arise when the original headlights or lamps are replaced. To ensure the standards are met, the replacement headlamp and equipment must be marked with the symbol 'DOT' either horizontally or vertically to indicate certification.
The federal lighting standard is very complex and is difficult to interpret even for some manufacturers and lighting specialists. The standards do not set a single maximum intensity for all possible types and designs or headlamps because the types of lights and lighting systems designed by manufacturers make a single standard impossible. Rather, FMVSS No. 108 determines the maximum allowable light intensity for a light by its design and the type of lighting system being used. The maximum light output for a particular headlight is determined at a specific point in its aiming pattern. Other maximums apply at other points in the light's aiming pattern. Compliance is determined through a specific set of test procedures.The actual performance standards are based principally on the standards developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). FMVSS No. 108 and the SAE standards apply to all vehicles registered in the United States, regardless of the headlamp filament or light source. Stated simply, the maximum light output of headlamp systems, whether two-or four-light systems, is limited as follows:

1. Type 2 or 2A Lights Upper beam limited to 20,000 to 75,000 candela per lamp. Lower beam limited to 15,000 to 20,000 candela per lamp.

2. Type 1 or 1A Lights Upper beam limited to 18,000 to 60,000 candela per lamp.
A candela is the basic unit of measure of luminous intensity in the International System of Units. Although the candela has a specific technical definition expressed in terms of a specific frequency and power, in layman's terms it approximates the light output of a common candle. A 100-watt light bulb emits about 120 candela.

Also in 36 years of driving my F150 I have only replaced 1 set of headlight bulbs. I replaced both when 1 of them burned out years ago. 2 times now after adding the LED's.

Christcorp

Trip, i do appreciate your feedback. But the truth is, there are laws "Federal" about the brightness of headlights. And every state abides by them. Of course, very few if ever are they enforced. So long as they are not blinding oncoming traffic and causing a problem. Off road and fog lights there's no problems with retrofitting LED bulbs. But there most definitely is swapping out your halogen, HID, or incandescent bulbs in your headlights with LED for street use. That's even why the "BIGGIE" light companies like Sylvania and Philips write clearly on their LED bulb packaging "For off-road and fog light use only".

But again, rarely is this ever enforced. And cars that do come with LED bulbs out of the factory, are set up with reflector/projector lenses made for the LED bulbs. And the lumen of those bulbs are under the 4000 lumen mark. Have I experimented with LED bulbs? Yes, of course. And my main inquire making this post was to see if anyone had done so with the 2007-13 silverado. But I do want to make sure we aren't misleading other people reading this thread that it's completely legal to swap out their halogen with LED bulbs. It's not. Do so at your own risk.Of course, no police officer is going to try and remove your headlight bulb to determine what it is. Most couldn't care less or even know what to look for. If you use LED bulbs in place of halogens, and you have them aimed correctly, chances are you'll never have an issue with the legality of it. Just wanting to be clear.

I do want to make one caveat. There ARE manufacturers out there that DO make LED bulbs that are within the specs for headlights in the USA. First thing to realize is; for marketing purposes, when you read the LUMEN of an LED bulb, they are siting the TOTAL lumen for the set. Now, having said that, some companies like LASFIT does make H11 LED bulbs that are rated as 6000 Lumen (PER SET). So that makes each bulb 3000 Lumen. That would be legal. If the law is interpreted by the 3,000 lumen is per bulb. They make some that are 2500 lumen each bulb. And there are others too. If you look at sylvania Silverstar Ultra halogen, basically the brightest of the halogens, they are rated at 1345 Lumen per bulb. So it's possible that the 3000 lumen max rating is per set. This is a gray area that most haven't been able to get an answer on; or most don't really care anyway. So it's not an issue on whether or not they are LED. You just want to be clear in the brightness. The Fahren Forenner are great bulbs, but they are 24,000 Lumen. (For marketing, that's 12,000 Lumen per bulb). These technically are not legal.
Mike