flex fuel
May 27th, 2008, 8:16 AM
#3
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RE: flex fuel
Hahaha, the dealer I went to when I bought mine tried to sell me a Flexfuel despite the nearest Ethanol dealer being 300 miles away at the time and the 25% lower fuel economy. Did you buy the flexfuel to be more "green"? If so, you might wanna check out butanol, it's supposedly safe to run incombustion engines, price right now might be cheaper than gas, gets the same or better economy, and is made from the same crops as ethanol, (and its not a foreign alcohol either, the biggest producer of the stuff is the US). I'd be wary about trying it in a new engine though, that might not be a great idea, but I've heard that its fine in other engines. Also, you dont need any mods until you start running around 80+% mixture with gas. I'd do my own research if I were you, though. DuPont and BP are hoping to have a working butanol refinery, I believe by 2010.
May 27th, 2008, 3:34 PM
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RE: flex fuel
Ethanol is a joke. Ax7221, whats the deal with butanol, i've never heard of that. Will they start making gas stations with butanol or something? Are you saying that after 80% mixture you need a fuel pump and lines that support the butanol?
May 27th, 2008, 3:42 PM
#5
RE: flex fuel
Yeah, ****ty! I get about 12 with E85 and about 15 to 16 driving 75 to 80 on the interstate.
I should have said that the 12 is with ethanal and the 15 to 16 is with regular gas on the interstate.
Yes, so ethanol is about 20 to 25 percent less. Some have said mixing half and half with regular helps a lot. I dont know, havent tried it. How about you guys?
I should have said that the 12 is with ethanal and the 15 to 16 is with regular gas on the interstate.
Yes, so ethanol is about 20 to 25 percent less. Some have said mixing half and half with regular helps a lot. I dont know, havent tried it. How about you guys?
May 27th, 2008, 3:51 PM
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RE: flex fuel
If they start making gas stations for Butanol, it will be BP first, and most likely in England before the US (as they are British Petroleum)...
But, from what I've read, butanol is denser than gas, and 80% is what I believe to be about when you start needing modifications (I think the actual number was closer to 90%). But heres the run down from what I've read.
Back in the 70's people were trying to get a gas alternative (spurred by the crisis back then) and they debated between ethanol and butanol, both are made from the same stuff, and *at the time* the technology allowed for ethanol to be producedd 3-4 times as readily as butanol. But now, with BP and DuPont working on, the yeild of butanol vs. ethanol is equal, and it out performs ethanol in everyway. It burns hotter, releases more energy (ethanol is around ~80,000 BTU's, butanol is ~105,000BTU's and gas is ~110,000 BTU, i i remember correctly), is less corrosive, and, while burning less energy per btu than gas, it allows for more of an explosion creating more power (hp and torque)than gas, giving you better gas mileage. Now, butanol is simply an alcohol, but being denser than gas, it needs a new fuel pump at a 80-90% mixture, and probably a computer tune up to adjust for valve timing. All minimal stuff. It's less corrosive than gasoline, so it can be pumped in the same lines as gas or ethanol, and I *believe* that it can be produced cheaper than ethanol.
Theres also people working on fuel from algae which, early tests show, could produce 7 times the yeild of corn based fuels.
The down sides right noware
1.) availability (not being produced everywhere, even though the US is the #1 producer, you could probably find some at a bulk chemical supply store)
2.) manufacturers havent run 30 yrs of testing so it'll probably ruin your warranty
3.) is extremely hard to "home manufacture" due to a need to have near sterile environments
http://butanol.com/
http://www2.dupont.com/Biofuels/en_US/ - they say they should've had biobutanol by end of 07, I havent heard anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biobutanol
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_inte...heet_jun06.pdf
http://www2.dupont.com/Renewably_Sou...-biofuels.html
do a google/yahoo search on butanol or biobutanol for more info.
But, from what I've read, butanol is denser than gas, and 80% is what I believe to be about when you start needing modifications (I think the actual number was closer to 90%). But heres the run down from what I've read.
Back in the 70's people were trying to get a gas alternative (spurred by the crisis back then) and they debated between ethanol and butanol, both are made from the same stuff, and *at the time* the technology allowed for ethanol to be producedd 3-4 times as readily as butanol. But now, with BP and DuPont working on, the yeild of butanol vs. ethanol is equal, and it out performs ethanol in everyway. It burns hotter, releases more energy (ethanol is around ~80,000 BTU's, butanol is ~105,000BTU's and gas is ~110,000 BTU, i i remember correctly), is less corrosive, and, while burning less energy per btu than gas, it allows for more of an explosion creating more power (hp and torque)than gas, giving you better gas mileage. Now, butanol is simply an alcohol, but being denser than gas, it needs a new fuel pump at a 80-90% mixture, and probably a computer tune up to adjust for valve timing. All minimal stuff. It's less corrosive than gasoline, so it can be pumped in the same lines as gas or ethanol, and I *believe* that it can be produced cheaper than ethanol.
Theres also people working on fuel from algae which, early tests show, could produce 7 times the yeild of corn based fuels.
The down sides right noware
1.) availability (not being produced everywhere, even though the US is the #1 producer, you could probably find some at a bulk chemical supply store)
2.) manufacturers havent run 30 yrs of testing so it'll probably ruin your warranty
3.) is extremely hard to "home manufacture" due to a need to have near sterile environments
http://butanol.com/
http://www2.dupont.com/Biofuels/en_US/ - they say they should've had biobutanol by end of 07, I havent heard anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biobutanol
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_inte...heet_jun06.pdf
http://www2.dupont.com/Renewably_Sou...-biofuels.html
do a google/yahoo search on butanol or biobutanol for more info.
May 27th, 2008, 8:11 PM
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RE: flex fuel
thanx for the info guys. i didn't buy a flex fuel to be "green" as ax was wondering, i bought it on the chance that someday this country might actually get its act together concerning ethanol. right now its not worth it, when they can make ethanol from cellulose, and if they install a dependable distribution system, i feel ethanol will be very affordable. if not, well, it didn't cost me anything extra to buy a truck that is flex fuel capable, so why not?
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May 28th, 2008, 1:35 PM
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RE: flex fuel
From what I've read, you can mix it directly with pump gas at any concentration, but at those high level's you will need modification, also, read last night that DuPont and BP concluded a 12month testing scheme on butanol and theyre tests show they can produce butanol with more power and fuel efficiency than ethanol (at higher levels than ethanol which is 10% limit) in normal engines, and hope to have a widely distributed product by 2010. If you go to dupont.com and search butanol, its the first article.
Fromdodge2chevy, if someone in this country wants to get behind ethanol, what they need to do is stop making it from corn, and switch to poplar cellulose trees, switch grass and sugar beets, it takes twice the energy to produce as corn ethanol, but its yeild is 5 times more. Which will also lessen rising food costs (notice your meat and dairy products rising? corn is one of the top feeds for livestock, take that and give it to ethanol, it costs more to produce meat... and you're ethanol fuel that costs more than gas, now makes your food cost more too, yay? not so much.) Add to the fact that switchgrass and poplar trees dont need fertilizer or pest sprays, AND can be grown in "wildlife reserves" and boost animal populations, it costs less and we'd have more places to grow it.
Fromdodge2chevy, if someone in this country wants to get behind ethanol, what they need to do is stop making it from corn, and switch to poplar cellulose trees, switch grass and sugar beets, it takes twice the energy to produce as corn ethanol, but its yeild is 5 times more. Which will also lessen rising food costs (notice your meat and dairy products rising? corn is one of the top feeds for livestock, take that and give it to ethanol, it costs more to produce meat... and you're ethanol fuel that costs more than gas, now makes your food cost more too, yay? not so much.) Add to the fact that switchgrass and poplar trees dont need fertilizer or pest sprays, AND can be grown in "wildlife reserves" and boost animal populations, it costs less and we'd have more places to grow it.