texascop2

Most real sythetics offer an engine flush to be used before your first sythetic change, if you have a higher mileage vehicle, and unlike many of the "facts" posted on here sythetics and conventional are completely compatible these days. most of the anti-sythetic stuff posted is bogus urban myths still hanging around from the 1970's...
lots of interesting info on "cracked molecule" synthetics available online (mobil1, syntec, quakerstate, penzoil) and the court cases that allow them to be sold as sythetics, even when their base is a petroleum product.
royal purple, redline, amsoil, and a few other are the only true synthetics...i.e. all ingredients made in a lab.
Guys, if you are happy with the way you are doing it I am not trying to change your method, just letting folks know there are other options that DO work and ARE safe...its not opinion, the research is out there as are lots of vehicles that are rolling proof.

EvansBlue

Officially beating a dead horse now...


Why risk it though? Have you ever taken one of those engines apart to see what kind of upper cylinder wear you have?
The reason you probably don't have sludge is because you have so much fuel dilution keeping it cleaner...


Where is info availible on the court cases?

texascop2

I agree that we are beating that horse....
and I dont think that any amount of info provided will change your mind on this topic...the info is all over the internet. i will get some links for you.
AMSOIL provides volumes of testing on their products. A few years back they sent me tons of stuff that was all pretty ineresting reading.
Why risk it? What risk??? These products have been PROVEN for years, and warranted in your engine. I have seen at least two engines taken apart with over 150k on them that looked awesome inside. We run our cars to about 150k usually,with 6 oil and filter changes during that period. We have tested compression and never found any significant drop. These cars are all Chevy Impalas and Ford Crown Vics. I have also used this system in numerous personal vehicles with great results.
Evan, technolgy in lubricants have come so far in 20 years it is incredible. I am sure that you are very knowledgable on lots of cars and truck topics, but on this one you are all over the place. You have said a filter cant hold 5k worth of contaminants, then said that it can but its not a good thing to do. Then you said I will find tons of sludge, then said maybe I wont... but its due to "fuel dilution"
It seems you are looking for a way to prove that you cant due extended oil and filter changes, when science and practical application have shown it is safe and possible to accompplish. As I stated before, if you are content and happy doing the 3k oil change, I am not knocking it, merely stating there are other options that work and work well.
when TX DPS explored doing extended filter and oil chanes on their patrol vehicles, they spent 2 years researching it before implementation. how superior are sythetics...here is one example. DPS here usually had about 100-150 transmission failures a year in patrol cars, not bad considering the abuse they take and the job they do...1st year they switched to AMSOIL sythetics in the tranny??? zero tranny failures! they ran cooler too. I have sent oil with 25k on it to the lab for analysis and been told it still has 60%-70% of its life still left.
you can talk trash about the methods I have mentioned if you wish, but it doesn't make you correct, just uninformed. i was once where you are. i was **** about 3k oil changes and babied my vehicles always, and i still do, i just dont have to change the oil but once a year. i use AMSOIL but others work well too, AMSOIL just puts lots of data out there for anyone to review.
I have seen the motors, seen the parts, seen how long the motors run...seen the lab data.
bottom line? If you use the proper equipment 25k oil and filter changes are a safe reliable, and ultimately affordable maitenance option.
www.amsoil.com/testimonials/409000.aspx
www.amsoil.com/magnuson_moss.aspx
www.organicanews.com/news/article.cfm?story_id=211
www.bobistheoilguy.com/motoroil.html
www.synthetic-oils-wholesale.com/faq_syntheticoil.html <court case info

Here are some links to answer some of your questions., some from AMSOL, some from other sources...tons more are out there.

therewolf

Sorry if I came in late on this, but when you extrapolate costs, it's maybe even a little cheaper to use synthetics, and I for one would LOVE not to have to get under this truck every 3K miles, if I could get away with going 8 TIMES as long between change intervals.

Evans Blue, Texascop2, I love you both like brothers, but we're getting way too emotionally charged here to reason effectively.

My point here is TC2 has made the first independent claim I feel I can trust concerning the validity of synthetics, and I'm honestly considering making the change, which is why I asked the contamination question. Others on this site(Who do NOT come across as crazy,BTW)swear by synthetics. For years now, I've held up the original 3K natural oil change as important and valid, and considered(even though I've worked in the automotive field) synthetics to be a fad, come-on, or a gimmick. It looks like I was wrong, and I'm ready to try something which time and testing has proven works.

Peace and love, my friends, you're all good.

EB, that horsey/stickey thing is hilarious!

texascop2

I apologize if I come across as emotionally charged as it was not my intent.
I have read alot of Evan's posts and he appears to be very knowledgeable on many car and truck topics and I appreciate him sharing that with all of us.
When it comes to this one I have just spent ALOT of time researching and watching the results of those who use the products.

I have said my peace. Anyone interested can read up and make their decisions, but watch over the next few years and see how the lubricant industry changes.

Hope everyone had a good weekend...

EvansBlue

I LOVE a good debate. I hope I'm not coming accross as emotionally charged.

I'm glad you quoted Bobistheoilguy. That is a great site and, while there is conflicting evidence there, they are an excellent source.

I now acknowledge the fact that there were court cases agains Castrol and Mobil, but good thing I use Q!


A lot of the thing I have said are contradictory, but there are so many scenarios I'm trying to describe..

Just some clarifications-
-Thermal breakdown and buildup of broken down particles cause sludge, but if there is any pre-existing upper-cylinder wear, you won't see the sludge.
-Fuel dilution is caused by upper cylinder wear. Fuel dilution causes anti-lubrication, accelerating wear, and makes an engine appear abnormally clean.
-Oil filters can't filter effectively after 5000 miles. They can be run longer, but I wouldn't go against the filter manufacturer's reccommendation.
That is, unless its a special kind of filter.

Six months roughly translates to 6000 miles, so I'm not far off the mark.



Also, about the oil life monitor, the question remains is what your car was filled with at the factory.
Synthetic or Conventional?



And I FULLY agree that Synthetic trans fluid is better than Conventional. I have yet to switch my vehicles over, but I no doubt will.



And BTW, I REALLY want that dead horse as part of our smilies!

98white5.0

Just a side note that I thought was kinda funny, since the debate has ended. In my owner's manual, chevrolet says that on highway driving, a 1998 pickup can go 7500 miles between oil changes. And that is with conventional oil. Same with a 2000 toyota camry, but it didn't specify highway driving. I don't know about other vehicles, but that is what they said for my truck. So I have no doubt that synthetics could go up to 25k between changes. I usually go 6k on mine with synthetic and I mainly drive highway. I just get worried for some reason. I guess it's like bungee jumping. You know you won't get hurt but you still worry the whole way down.

EvansBlue

Thats another good point.
"Severe" driving conditions is what we encounter every day in short trips and city driving. A LOT of people drive under severe conditions.

98white5.0

I would even go so far as to say 85% of drivers actually fit into the "severe" category. I still wouldn't go anywhere near 25k on any oil. I don't see a reason to risk it. But I do believe it can be done and is done all the time. I don't know about paying that much for oil either.

EvansBlue

I'd have to agree.