in2pro

A flush could simply be changing the fluid in the reservoir and nothing more.
A bleed is siphoning out the brake fluid to each caliper starting with the furthest one, passenger rear, drivers rear, passenger front, drivers front.
The ABS is the same ( as I understand it, but I could be wrong) but sometimes the ABS module has to be activated to allow the fluid to reach each corner otherwise you are not able to bleed the calipers as you traditionally would.
I had no issues bleeding my 07 when I did my brakes
https://chevroletforum.com/forum/tah...tenance-54058/



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73shark

I think a true flush involves removing all of the fluid and replacing it with new fluid. If the ABS module is not activated then there will be residual fluid that doesn't get flushed.

Mad Dawg

REALLY?????

This makes me laugh and just shake my head. This right here justifies the "stealership" name given to some dealerships. I once worked as an insurance adjuster rewriting both mechanical and body repair estimates for Mitchell's suggested R&R times is infamous for "overlapping," meaning that the customer would be charged twice for essentially doing a specific task. The above is a perfect example. If the calipers and brake lines are being replaced at the same time, there is NO need to bleed the brakes twice and charging the customer.

No disrespect to you Tech2, but let me ask you a few questions about the time it takes to perform certain tasks on brake jobs. 1.8hr = 108mins for R&R the front calipers and bleed the brakes per Mitchell as you have quoted.
- Using powered air tools, how long does it take to remove a wheel? 15-20 seconds would you say?? if you agree, 40secs (both front wheels) from 108mins and I will round up to 1 full minute for you to walk from one side of the vehicle to the other, 107 mins left of the "suggested" time to perform the remainder of the job.
- Again using powered air tools, how long would it take to remove the bolts to remove the caliper, and using hand tools to remove the brake line from the caliper, and remove the pads from the holding bracket? I would estimate 5-7 mins tops for each wheel based on my personal experience without the luxury of having power tools.

The point that I am trying to make is that the "suggested" R&R times by both Mitchell's and the dealership is soooo off it is not funny for we both know that it does not take anywhere that long to do the work. Like I said in my previous post, any competent mechanic can do this job for far less than the suggested factory or Mitchell R&R times.

tech2

That is what all the bean counters think too...people who have never worked on the shop floor.
Some of the fastest techs, making the most hours are the guys I would not want working on my car. butchers

the industry standard time; it is not determined by the dealers. Warranty times for the same job is 40-50% less than the standard time.


try pulling a turbo on a 3.0 eco-diesel when you have never done one before...the first 2x you loose your shirt. The flat rate system protects the consumer...they get charged the book time not the total time if the tech goes longer. No one beats the book time on everything.
things don't go perfectly all the time.
So, if a tech gets a easy job where he can make time once in a while its ok by me.

73shark

Hope you aren't a mechanic cuz if you use an impact wrench to remove my chrome plated lug nuts, I'd have the service mgr put you on the broom. Maybe you can get on a NASCAR pit crew. They only take about 10 seconds to remove and replace four wheels.

Typerod

Hi all, thanks for the input on the brake flush/brake bleeding. In my mind, if I ask for a brake fluid flush, it means to me that all the old fluid in the reservoir and all the hard lines need to be removed as much as possible with fresh brake fluid put in. But I guess there could be discrepancy from dealer to dealer and tech to tech about what a brake fluid flush means, lol.

So I just got both front calipers and flex brake lines replaced today. My tech buddy did the work. Only charged me $130 for the labor including pulling out all the old brake fluid out of reservoir and bleeding each line to get out as much of the old stuff as possible. He provided the synthetic BG brake fluid.

So my left front wheel turns freely much more than it used to, BUT not as freely as the right front wheel. So there may be another issue lurking there, not really sure, but at least I know the sticky caliper issue will be gone.

So now for my next question. Looks like the new flex brake lines are an update part compared to my old lines. And I didn't notice this till I got home and was looking at the old lines. On the flex brake lines is a ~2 inch long, thick hard piece of rubber. This piece was slid up over where the rubber line meets the crimped metal connector which screws into the hard brake line. So now on the NEW flex brake lines, this same hard rubber piece it still there but its not slid up all the way to where the crimped line meets the flex line. And on the old lines if I pull hard enough on the this rubber piece it will slide off the crimped parts of the flex brake line, it seems to act as a flex protector, like it won't allow the line to bend much at the crimped connection.

But on the new flex brake lines, this thick rubber protector has NO space between itself and the flex brake line and is tightly fitted to the flex brake line, so it seems that its not supposed to be slid up over the crimped connection. Whereas the old line, there is a bit of space between this protector and the flex line so I can easily slide it up and over the crimped connection.

Please see my pics below, hopefully they can clarify my very wordy explanation. I can tell the new flex lines are an updated part, bc the hard line going to the banjo bolt connector to the caliper is angled differently compared to the previous one.

Let me know what you think, should this rubber piece be slid up or not? I tried by hand when I got to slide it up, but I would really have to force it, since it is tightly held to the flex line.

in2pro

My 2 cents is that extra rubber is to be placed anywhere along the line that rubbing or chaffing may be an issue or concern.

Typerod

That would make sense. But the extra rubber, won't budge at all, on the new line. I probably could move it if I really force it, but I didn't want cause damage to anything. But on the old line there is a tiny bit of space between the extra rubber and the flex line, and you can slide up and over the metal crimp as the top picture shows, which is how this line was installed at the factory. I thought the extra rubber was to protect the metal crimp and rubber connection from debris (road salt in winter, etc.) or maybe not allow the line to flex too much at the crimp. But on the other end of the flex line is another metal to rubber crimp which is expose to the elements. So only the person who designed the part knows, lol!

I asked my buddy, he said to not worry about it, its an updated part so that could be why its changed.

I'm going to look at the old lines again just to convince my OCD that its ok and the extra rubber on the new line is NOT supposed to cover the metal to rubber crimp, lol.

Typerod

UPDATE: I asked my buddy to snap a pic of the same part on his 2014 Suburban, and its the same as my new brake line. I feel in2pro is spot on with his guess on that the extra rubber piece to protect the line from chaffing and rubbing. I didn't take a look but just felt around the area where the extra rubber piece is at and I did feel a possible rubbing source. So thanks all for your help and suggestions, OCD level is zero! lol!