Hardin Thicke

You're looking at it from a pure BTU standpoint. Pure Ethanol has an octane rating of approx. 105 but does indeed contain less energy than gasoline. But although E85 contains only 72% of the energy on a gallon-for-gallon basis compared to gasoline, users of it have seen a consistantly although slightlybetter fuel mileage while using it. Why? Perhaps it's an engine timing issue.Thefive-threeis capable of adjustingitsoperating parameters according to the fuel being used, adjusting the timing and injection events.I do know that the increased mileage is a documented fact.

The combustion of E85 produces quantities of formic acid that will destroy any parts exposed to the combustion process, and that includes parts which are oiled, so it's pretty much the entire engine. The hygroscopic nature of ethanol is only part of the problem. Ethanol is a corrosive to aluminum, magnesium, and attacks certain rubber and elastomeric parts. I don't think rusting is an issue. I haven't seen steel fuel lines used for a long time and fuel tanks are mostly made of plastic nowadays. Oh...and Ethanol is a conductor not a dielectric like gasoline so care must be taken with electrical parts that come in direct contact with the fuel such as fuel pumps.

shnormo

So the formic acid is produced from the combustion chamber, that doesn't affect the fuel system. If you look at the Chevy S10-from the fuel tank to the fuel filter is plastic, from the filter to the fuel rail it's carbon-steel. My 2.2L is a flex fuel engine. It's got the 5 engine code if you're wondering, but I do get about 80 miles less per tank than using regular gasoline.

Hardin Thicke

Does the 5.3 do direct injection like diesel engines? I thought I read that somewhere that only air is compressed and that fuel is introduced just before the ignition event. Can anyone confirm this?

ZX1100F1

Fuel is injected upstream of the intake valve and compressed on all the Vortec powerplants.

jlenkows

Yeah!!! What he said.

engine2

I like the idea of lowering demand of gasoline. I would like to get opinions if E85 is the future of altenative fuels or will something else come along soon thats even better? Right now there are no public E85 stations in my entire state.

ZX1100F1

I honestly think that fossil fuel is the future of fuel as we know it; I don't think that we've pumped even a tiny fraction of the available crude from the ground yet.
Sure we'll have some neat and innovative alternative fuels and power-plants surface here and there, and some have been and will continue to be damn imaginative and environmentally friendly solutions; but the fact of the matter is that this stuff only appeals to a very small percentage of the buying public right now and I don't think that will change unless oil goes away.

73shark

Several years ago, it was reported that the proven reserves in the Gulf of Mexico were greater than when we started pumping. Long story short, there's not a shortage of oil, just too many eco-folks.

If ethanol is the answer, it won't be corn-based. Just the recent increase in ethanol production from corn has driven the price of corn up so high, that countries are complaining that their people can't afford to eat. Also there is the questionable energy to produce vs energy obtained. The jury seems to be out on that one, kind of like global warming vs an ice age.

rhoadsc

E85 isgoing nowhere. My wife is in the petro. business (no she does not work for big oil).E85s mileage isworse. So, even if you could get a gallon of it to the same selling price as gas, it would still be more expensive because you can't drive as far on it. The only reason you are seeing GM produce "E85" cars and trucks is because the government requires the major auto manufactures to produce a certain amount of what is called "flexible fuel" cars every year. If they don't they will be fined by the FEDs. The cheapest "flex fuel" car you can produce is a car that will run E85. Estimates at the time of manufacturing to make a car run E85is about $100.00 So, for around $100 GM can make a car or truck run E85. Try to retro fit a vehicle to run on let's saynatural gas for that.

Distribution also plays a big role in the cost of a product. Due toE85scorrosive nature you can't use the same distribution channels to get it to consumers. The entire world is set up to distribute gasoline. E85 cannotbe storedin the same storage tanks. It will eat them up. So, you now need specialtanks to store E85 andyou need special tanks on trucks to haul E85 to the gas station. Then you need more special tanks at the station to store the fuel. Too expensive to do this. Underground tanks cost an average of $750,000. The small station owner can't afford to put these in. And yes there are still a ton of mom and pop gas stations in the country. Believe it or not most of the BPs stations you see are not owned by BP. They are just branded by BP. You also can't pumpE85 through the underground pipelines that feed much of the country.Thedistribution and short term storagecosts make it very difficult for E85 to compete with gasoline. When was the last time you passed a station selling it?

There is even the argument thatin order to cut down enough corn to get 1 gallon ofE85the combine will burn 1.25 to 1.5 gallons of gas. Evenmore if it ran on E85. So you use more energy to produce the fuel then you are getting back. They only company I know that can survive running a business like that is the government.

The only thing that will kill fossil fuels is a source of energy that is eitheralready distributed through out the world or can easily be transported through the same system. For example electricity or hydrogen (H2O).

I wouldn't buy "stock" in the "Corn Growers Assocation" just yet.

Wags

I am the one who started this post. It has been interesting to read the threads. I can say that all the literature I've seen on the web (EPA website for example), in newsprint, and from talking to mechanicsclearly shows that most vehicles get about 4-5 MPG LESS with E85. Most say there is a slight HP increase too. I also saw on one of the news shows that it does indeed, take more energy to create ethanol gallon per gallon so "rhoadsc" is right in that respect. Here in CO, there are only about 3-4 stations (Denver region) that sells E85. That # is supposed to go up to about 15 stations this year. Interestingly, all the BP gas stations here in CO are now Conoco's. They are everywhere out here!