Cannot maintain alignment
March 28th, 2016, 2:22 PM
#1
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Cannot maintain alignment
I recently had most of my front suspension completely replaced on my 2004 Silverado 1500 Z71 Crew Cab (225,000 miles). The upper/lower control arms, inner/outer tie rods, and sway bar links were replaced. Afterward I had an alignment done. The alignment still seemed slightly off, but I figured I would wait until I put on my new tires. I put on brand new tires and drove on them for a couple weeks with the alignment slightly off to the left.
In the last couple days a new issue started. If I hit a bump the alignment will shift to being off more significantly to the right (along with the steering wheel). It will correct itself shortly afterward.
I took it to the shop for another alignment. Afterward, they told me it was way off. The alignment seemed fine for a little bit, but is back to where it was before the previous alignment.
Any ideas on what the culprit is in this situation? Hoping it is something I can handle on my own.
In the last couple days a new issue started. If I hit a bump the alignment will shift to being off more significantly to the right (along with the steering wheel). It will correct itself shortly afterward.
I took it to the shop for another alignment. Afterward, they told me it was way off. The alignment seemed fine for a little bit, but is back to where it was before the previous alignment.
Any ideas on what the culprit is in this situation? Hoping it is something I can handle on my own.
March 28th, 2016, 5:28 PM
#2
not sure what your describing?
attaching the alignment printout would be helpful.
torsion bar or coil springs up front? rack and pinion or parallelogram steering linkage?
does the concern fit into one of these conditions:
-vehicle drives straight but the steering wheel is off-center
-steering wheel is centered but there is a lead/pull in one direction
-after hitting a bump, there is a directional change
attaching the alignment printout would be helpful.
torsion bar or coil springs up front? rack and pinion or parallelogram steering linkage?
does the concern fit into one of these conditions:
-vehicle drives straight but the steering wheel is off-center
-steering wheel is centered but there is a lead/pull in one direction
-after hitting a bump, there is a directional change
Last edited by tech2; March 28th, 2016 at 5:33 PM.
March 30th, 2016, 9:11 AM
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OK. I was paying close attention for my entire commutes (34 miles each way) last night and this morning.
Here is a list of all the various conditions the truck experienced.
1. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel straight, truck drives straight (Yay!)
2. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel straight, truck pulls to the right (need to turn steering wheel anywhere from 1 to 8 degrees to the left to drive straight)
2. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel straight, truck pulls to the left (need to turn steering wheel 1 or 2 degrees to the right to drive straight)
3. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel off to the left (3 to 8 degrees), truck drives straight
4. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel off to the left (3 to 8 degrees), truck pulls right (need to turn steering wheel anywhere from 5 to 10 degrees to the left to drive straight)
Last night #2 was 99% of the drive with #1 at 1%
This morning started (first 25% of commute) with the same ratio as last night. Then switched to about 90% #4 and 10% #3.
I will try and get a copy of the alignment report posted later today.
Here is a list of all the various conditions the truck experienced.
1. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel straight, truck drives straight (Yay!)
2. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel straight, truck pulls to the right (need to turn steering wheel anywhere from 1 to 8 degrees to the left to drive straight)
2. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel straight, truck pulls to the left (need to turn steering wheel 1 or 2 degrees to the right to drive straight)
3. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel off to the left (3 to 8 degrees), truck drives straight
4. Hands off steering wheel - steering wheel off to the left (3 to 8 degrees), truck pulls right (need to turn steering wheel anywhere from 5 to 10 degrees to the left to drive straight)
Last night #2 was 99% of the drive with #1 at 1%
This morning started (first 25% of commute) with the same ratio as last night. Then switched to about 90% #4 and 10% #3.
I will try and get a copy of the alignment report posted later today.
March 30th, 2016, 7:36 PM
#5
what did they charge for this alignment?
horrible job if they charged you full price 1.5 hours labour. they gave you a toe an go...all they set was toe. never touched the upper control arm eccentrics. either done by a lazy tech or someone who knows nothing about alignment angles. the good thing that I can mention is that they did a 2 wheel thrust alignment, not a two wheel alignment.
right camber is out but more importantly cross camber is out. cross camber should be within 0.5 degrees or it will pull to the side of most positive camber. your trucks setting should cause a pull right. the tech did not use this angle to compensate for road crown.
cross caster is within 0.5 degrees so that is good. if cross is out more than that amount, the steering wheel will turn off-centre by itself due to the vehicle weight pushing the spindles to there lowest position. the vehicle will pull to the least positive caster setting. so yours will pull right. a good tech would have compensated for road crown with this adjustment....and put the right to match the left or up to 0.5 degrees more positive than the left. If this was done, the caster would be in spec and compensated for road crown all at once. this is not a tire wear angle.
so when driving on a level road (and if your tires are no conical so as to induce a tire pull) your vehicle should pull right base on the alignment numbers.
the sad thing is...with new upper control arms...the adjustments are easy as nothing is seized.
------------------
do you have factory rims or aftermarket rims with a different offset and tire width?
horrible job if they charged you full price 1.5 hours labour. they gave you a toe an go...all they set was toe. never touched the upper control arm eccentrics. either done by a lazy tech or someone who knows nothing about alignment angles. the good thing that I can mention is that they did a 2 wheel thrust alignment, not a two wheel alignment.
right camber is out but more importantly cross camber is out. cross camber should be within 0.5 degrees or it will pull to the side of most positive camber. your trucks setting should cause a pull right. the tech did not use this angle to compensate for road crown.
cross caster is within 0.5 degrees so that is good. if cross is out more than that amount, the steering wheel will turn off-centre by itself due to the vehicle weight pushing the spindles to there lowest position. the vehicle will pull to the least positive caster setting. so yours will pull right. a good tech would have compensated for road crown with this adjustment....and put the right to match the left or up to 0.5 degrees more positive than the left. If this was done, the caster would be in spec and compensated for road crown all at once. this is not a tire wear angle.
so when driving on a level road (and if your tires are no conical so as to induce a tire pull) your vehicle should pull right base on the alignment numbers.
the sad thing is...with new upper control arms...the adjustments are easy as nothing is seized.
------------------
do you have factory rims or aftermarket rims with a different offset and tire width?
March 31st, 2016, 10:48 AM
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Thanks for the info! It matches the fact that is pulls right almost all the time. However, what could be causing the temporary changes is alignment and steering wheel position when hitting a bump? I won't have a chance to take a look for myself until this weekend. I would likely only be able to spot some pretty obvious on my own.
When I got the alignment after the parts were replaced. I paid $170 for lifetime alignments. So, it is free to take it back as much as necessary, except for the time it takes.
I am running with stock sized wheels and tires. I have the originals with my snow tires and a set of OEM GMC rims with my all seasons. I currently have Cooper Discoverer SRX 265/70R17.
When I got the alignment after the parts were replaced. I paid $170 for lifetime alignments. So, it is free to take it back as much as necessary, except for the time it takes.
I am running with stock sized wheels and tires. I have the originals with my snow tires and a set of OEM GMC rims with my all seasons. I currently have Cooper Discoverer SRX 265/70R17.
what did they charge for this alignment?
horrible job if they charged you full price 1.5 hours labour. they gave you a toe an go...all they set was toe. never touched the upper control arm eccentrics. either done by a lazy tech or someone who knows nothing about alignment angles. the good thing that I can mention is that they did a 2 wheel thrust alignment, not a two wheel alignment.
right camber is out but more importantly cross camber is out. cross camber should be within 0.5 degrees or it will pull to the side of most positive camber. your trucks setting should cause a pull right. the tech did not use this angle to compensate for road crown.
cross caster is within 0.5 degrees so that is good. if cross is out more than that amount, the steering wheel will turn off-centre by itself due to the vehicle weight pushing the spindles to there lowest position. the vehicle will pull to the least positive caster setting. so yours will pull right. a good tech would have compensated for road crown with this adjustment....and put the right to match the left or up to 0.5 degrees more positive than the left. If this was done, the caster would be in spec and compensated for road crown all at once. this is not a tire wear angle.
so when driving on a level road (and if your tires are no conical so as to induce a tire pull) your vehicle should pull right base on the alignment numbers.
the sad thing is...with new upper control arms...the adjustments are easy as nothing is seized.
------------------
do you have factory rims or aftermarket rims with a different offset and tire width?
horrible job if they charged you full price 1.5 hours labour. they gave you a toe an go...all they set was toe. never touched the upper control arm eccentrics. either done by a lazy tech or someone who knows nothing about alignment angles. the good thing that I can mention is that they did a 2 wheel thrust alignment, not a two wheel alignment.
right camber is out but more importantly cross camber is out. cross camber should be within 0.5 degrees or it will pull to the side of most positive camber. your trucks setting should cause a pull right. the tech did not use this angle to compensate for road crown.
cross caster is within 0.5 degrees so that is good. if cross is out more than that amount, the steering wheel will turn off-centre by itself due to the vehicle weight pushing the spindles to there lowest position. the vehicle will pull to the least positive caster setting. so yours will pull right. a good tech would have compensated for road crown with this adjustment....and put the right to match the left or up to 0.5 degrees more positive than the left. If this was done, the caster would be in spec and compensated for road crown all at once. this is not a tire wear angle.
so when driving on a level road (and if your tires are no conical so as to induce a tire pull) your vehicle should pull right base on the alignment numbers.
the sad thing is...with new upper control arms...the adjustments are easy as nothing is seized.
------------------
do you have factory rims or aftermarket rims with a different offset and tire width?
March 31st, 2016, 1:55 PM
#7
goggle bumpsteer
bump steer is a condition that causes a directional change with suspension movement.
depending on the steering design...which I asked for...it can be caused by the steering linkages not being level. typically this is caused from an impact or worn component.
with sala suspension...what should happen when the suspension jounces (compresses) the toe reading at each wheel should move outward, equally on both sides. during a bumpsteer condition the toe moves to the same side, causing a directional change.
this can be easily checked while its on the alignment rack. pulling the frame down and watching for toe change is all that's needed. good machines has a toe change option that will measure and graph the change. the fix can be as easy as leveling the pitman or idler arm mounting position
bump steer is a condition that causes a directional change with suspension movement.
depending on the steering design...which I asked for...it can be caused by the steering linkages not being level. typically this is caused from an impact or worn component.
with sala suspension...what should happen when the suspension jounces (compresses) the toe reading at each wheel should move outward, equally on both sides. during a bumpsteer condition the toe moves to the same side, causing a directional change.
this can be easily checked while its on the alignment rack. pulling the frame down and watching for toe change is all that's needed. good machines has a toe change option that will measure and graph the change. the fix can be as easy as leveling the pitman or idler arm mounting position
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March 31st, 2016, 9:25 PM
#8
...so they will not charge you to do an alignment check...but if any adjustments are required they ding you? hmmmmm. Let me know how that works out for you.
really though, you should pay nothing as it was done wrong in the first place.
when you go back, if they try to charge you....mention this....the alignment machine was smart enough to recognize and printout the faults in the pre-alignment settings. the technician ignored the corrective action the machine is screaming out to correct...6 full sentences.
Last edited by tech2; April 1st, 2016 at 1:03 AM.
April 26th, 2016, 12:39 PM
#9
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Two things I'd like to know. 1. I'm assuming it has idler and pitman arm setup which any reputable alignment shop should know if they are bad or not. They could be causing issues if worn. 2. From my years of experience with aligning these trucks you have to crank those control arm bolts that adjust your castor and camber down really tight. That is the only thing that makes since to me. Look at the upper control arm bolts and notice the adjustment guides. When you get it lined up take you some white out or something similar and mark all four bolts and guides. If you are having issues with them moving around that will show you what has moved.