Disastro2000

I have a 2000 Chevrolet Astro Van which has failed to pass the Safety Inspection because the Service Engine Soon - SES - (AKA Check Engine Light - CEL) does not alway illuminate when the key is turned to the on position. It comes on about 4 out of 5 times, sometimes 3 out of 5 times. When it does come on, it goes off when the engine is started like it should. There are no OBDII error codes logged.

I replaced the instrument cluster first because the fuel gauge is also acting up but that did not change the symptom. I am shooting for the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) next. Anyone have a similar issue and solution? Or ideas of what would cause this?

Thanks!

Disastro2000

Actually, I replaced the Instrument Cluster in attempt to resolve the problem with the SES. Replacing the Instrument Cluster did not resolve the problem. The SES still does not illuminate consistently when I turn the key to the Ignition position. I have since replaced the Powertrain Control Module which is what controls the SES and that did not resolve the problem either. I will double check the connector at both ends which contains the SES wire.

Here are some other observations. Sometimes, the ABS and Brake light will both remain on after starting the vehicle or sometimes both will come on later after driving for a while. Not sure if that could be related to the SES problem. I had that same issue with my 1994 Astro and was told by the dealer that is was a problem with the ABS computer which they wanted $1100 to resolve. I assume this issue might be the ABS computer also but that it only a guess. I have not looked into it yet.

I also noticed something else odd about the Instrument Cluster which is intermittent. Sometimes when I turn the key to Ignition position, the digital P-N-D-3-2-1 indicator will radiply sequence from right to left (takes less than a second) and end up at Park. Other times, it just shows to be in Park as soon as the key is turned to Ignition (which is what I think would be normal). Ever seen that condition? A ground problem maybe?

I guess I need to pay more attention to see if there is a correlation between these oddities and when the SES does not come on.

On your last "touched theory", I can't say that I myself pay much attention to the SES light everytime I start the vehicle, but it failed to pass the Vehicle Inspection the last time I attempted to have it inspected which I why I am trying to resolve the problem. I can only assume that is was working properly the previous time it passed inspection, unless they do not alway pay close attenttion to the SES. Assuming it was working the previous time I had it inspected, the only maintenance done to the vehicle was since then was when I had the transmission replaced. They did a swap instead of rebuilding my transmission. Is there anything on the transmission besides the VSS that interfaces with the PCM? I am wondering if there is something different about the transmission that might cause the SES to behave oddly.

Thanks,
Eric

roc0999

why dont you just clear the codes out before your inspection? you can get a code reader at harbor freight for like 39.00 and just clear them out to get your inspection, when I do that on mine it usually stays off for like a week... or just remove the bulb in the cluster, I know its just a temporary fix but it will get you past your inspection...I also have a simular problem with different lights appearing and then turning off by themselves, abs, airbag and the daytime running lights, which is wierd cause I removed the fuse for the lights

Rjwood23

your abs could be your reluctor wheel on the inside of your tire between the wheel and the brakes it could be caked up with grime or wss could be faulty. When you scanned your vehicle was the light illuminated cause if it is an intermittent fault then it is erased after three trips or 3 drive cycles

Disastro2000

Thanks for all the suggestions! I think I would like to keep the ABS stuff out of this thread unless you think the SES light KOEO problem might be related. Maybe I should open a different thread on the ABS problem?

Roc0999,

It is not a problem with codes, the scanner shows no codes at all. To pass emission inspection in my county, the SES light is required to come on when the ignition is first turned on (KOEO), once the engine starts the SES should go off. This indicates that the SES light is at least functional. If the SES stays on then that indicates a problem. The SES light does not stay on on my Astro so codes are not an issue. The problem with my Astro is that the SES does not always come on when the ignition is first turned on which is a requirement. When it does come on with KOEO, it goes off like it should once the engine starts. It is intermittent.


1Gary,

I don't think you ever said you replaced the cluster with a new one.So is that what you did??.

I replaced the instrument cluster with one I purchased from Ebay. It was professed to be good but who knows. I find it odd it would exhibit the exact same symptom unless the cold solder joints you refer to are always the same ones. That is possible I suppose. Otherwise the gauges and speedo work just fine on it.

If not the cluster ahve you replaced the PCM??.

After the instrument cluster did not resolve the problem, I replaced the PCM from one I purchased from SpareECM. It was used but supposedly pulled from a running engine and reprogrammed to the specifics of my VIN. That did not resolve the problem either. As you mentioned wiring harness may be next unless you think these are common flaws with the GM parts and replacing with used might be interjecting the same problem...

basemnt

Mine the only thing works <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/Users/Basem/AppData/Local/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>"instrument cluster"<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/Users/Basem/AppData/Local/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>Voltage and oil pressure gauges, NO <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/Users/Basem/AppData/Local/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>shift indicator, <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/Users/Basem/AppData/Local/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style>no Speedometer, no temp gauge. I replaced the cluster and the same.

mojoson

I am haveing the same exact issues with a 2004 tahoe. Has anyone resolved this?

basemnt

After I took it to a shop, they told me it was the cluster!

Get one and installed the newcluster myself, still the same prob. had code scan by Autozone, code came out as "Mass Air flow sensor"

Didn't believe it was the sensor, because I checked the sensor with $20 Digital voltmeter, it was with in factory specs.

So I went after the basic.

Change Battery Connections and the fuse box under the hod next to the power steering. I thought the heat and age will cause it to fail more than the other fuse box next to Parking brake! and I guess that took care of it and fixed.

So the prob was loose connection when driving some eng sensors don't receive the proper volt triggering check eng light code.
when you take it to the shop, techs check all connections when its parked, they don't find the prob and they tell you PCM unit or something bigger.. always check the basic..

Pdiesel

You can’t just remove the check engine light bulb to turn off the light to pass inspection. One of the first things that gets checked is if the check engine light is illuminated with the key on an engine off. If it doesn’t turn on then automatic fail even if it’s running fine. That light should turn on every time in that scenario and if it doesn’t it points to deeper issues. Could be a fuse could be a short could be a bad ECM could even be an ignition switch. However pulling a bulb will turn out the light and if a vehicle is over 20 years old in ct emissions testing is no longer required