Asking for advice about an 86 silverado suburban timing chain slip.
December 11th, 2021, 2:15 AM
#51
CF Monarch
Henry, they were built on an M-4 Tank chassis, but were considered a prime mover. (Prime mover: A vehicle that tows Artillery and such , like 105's - 155mm artillery across the battlefield). They had a waukeshaw145 engine and the torque converters ran with kerosene. They had a gun ring on top to mount a .30 or 50 Cal, with room for a small crew in the back, it was a boxy looking green eyed monster.
I knew a WW2vet who drove one of those in the war. Nice fellow, now long gone.
As a kid I talked a lot to the veterans, +grew up near a rather huge military Depot on the east coast and they rebuilt armored vehicles, carried all types of weapons + munitions and even tested Russian & German tanks, such as the T-34.. they sold all kinds of surplus to the public at auction till 68, and a 1903 rifle then was 12.00.a Garand bayonet was 3.00 then.
The local surplus dealer had hundreds of acres of vehicles and engines etc + used to cut shermans up with a torch for decades for scrap, and found lots of awful stuff inside. He claimed to have invented the first jeep snorkel , using it to ford streams to sneak into town to the bars while training in stateside practice maneuvers . That guy could sure spin a yarn. The General heard of his escapades and hunted him down....he just wanted to know how he did it, and copied his design.
But again I digress, Heres the latest skinny on the Suburban....parts came in, so I will begin installing them as weather permits. Pulled carb apart and found 2 of the 4 top stage down tubes had dropped into the wells,one skinny one and one fat,so I Decided to reseal the second stage plugs with PC-7, SINCE THEY CLAIM IT SEALS GAS TANKS. Book says to tap them in with a plastic hammer, did that before, so I might try another trick this time.
DID THAT, then am letting it harden. It is a round 2 part epoxy stick that mixes in one minute and work time is 3, and hardens in 1.5 hours. Since it was cold today, I worked easier on the time, , so we will see how it works. Everything else looked ok, but now I have to clean it up a bit and get out my loupe to take notes on my jets and metering rod numbers.( just for the file) I don't want to put a kit in it till I see if it will run first. In thinking it over on the timing set, Just hoping I got the crank right in relation to the Cam, and that there are no bent valves, but proofs in the pudding. Studying up on setting the lash etc.
Still calling for snow on Fri. The rest would be redundant to mention.
I knew a WW2vet who drove one of those in the war. Nice fellow, now long gone.
As a kid I talked a lot to the veterans, +grew up near a rather huge military Depot on the east coast and they rebuilt armored vehicles, carried all types of weapons + munitions and even tested Russian & German tanks, such as the T-34.. they sold all kinds of surplus to the public at auction till 68, and a 1903 rifle then was 12.00.a Garand bayonet was 3.00 then.
The local surplus dealer had hundreds of acres of vehicles and engines etc + used to cut shermans up with a torch for decades for scrap, and found lots of awful stuff inside. He claimed to have invented the first jeep snorkel , using it to ford streams to sneak into town to the bars while training in stateside practice maneuvers . That guy could sure spin a yarn. The General heard of his escapades and hunted him down....he just wanted to know how he did it, and copied his design.
But again I digress, Heres the latest skinny on the Suburban....parts came in, so I will begin installing them as weather permits. Pulled carb apart and found 2 of the 4 top stage down tubes had dropped into the wells,one skinny one and one fat,so I Decided to reseal the second stage plugs with PC-7, SINCE THEY CLAIM IT SEALS GAS TANKS. Book says to tap them in with a plastic hammer, did that before, so I might try another trick this time.
DID THAT, then am letting it harden. It is a round 2 part epoxy stick that mixes in one minute and work time is 3, and hardens in 1.5 hours. Since it was cold today, I worked easier on the time, , so we will see how it works. Everything else looked ok, but now I have to clean it up a bit and get out my loupe to take notes on my jets and metering rod numbers.( just for the file) I don't want to put a kit in it till I see if it will run first. In thinking it over on the timing set, Just hoping I got the crank right in relation to the Cam, and that there are no bent valves, but proofs in the pudding. Studying up on setting the lash etc.
Still calling for snow on Fri. The rest would be redundant to mention.
December 11th, 2021, 4:44 AM
#52
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
The 145 was a rather large flathead engine, it had been replaced by someone using a 57 Chrysler v8 and connected to the torque converter with a short drive shaft. I mounted the whole AM 343 transmission and all to the TC adapting it the same way keeping the key and wiring harness. But had to run it with 2 people, one to drive, the other to run the throttle and run the shifter in back. I spun brodies with that thing, mostly in non crop seasons. It had steel tracks. I almost bought a M7 self propelled gun, but mom was already having a cow over the M4. I had the tech manual for it, and recall it had a 100 gallon gas tank, and the height was 90 inches. It had a huge pto rear winch with at least 1" cable.
i won't run a compression test on the suburban till I have the parts installed, so if it runs, it won't be necessary. I will likely finish up the carb tomorrow , putting it back together.
What was the problem with replacing your battery Henry ?
i get it that parts of the nation get their summer water supply from winter snows, or rain . That's the problem with Arizona. They will eventually be a ghost state when water becomes scarce. It was the air quality that sent me packing, not the heat. But with the mismanagement of our energy independence, no doubt many will suffer in many ways in cold winter states, because of many circumstances. I think many will eventually have to go back to coal furnaces, as fuel oil is just too cost prohibitive. I recall my grandpa had a coal furnace, he just had to check on it frequently to stoke it and add more coal. Seems to me like we are going backwards now, not forward.
i won't run a compression test on the suburban till I have the parts installed, so if it runs, it won't be necessary. I will likely finish up the carb tomorrow , putting it back together.
What was the problem with replacing your battery Henry ?
i get it that parts of the nation get their summer water supply from winter snows, or rain . That's the problem with Arizona. They will eventually be a ghost state when water becomes scarce. It was the air quality that sent me packing, not the heat. But with the mismanagement of our energy independence, no doubt many will suffer in many ways in cold winter states, because of many circumstances. I think many will eventually have to go back to coal furnaces, as fuel oil is just too cost prohibitive. I recall my grandpa had a coal furnace, he just had to check on it frequently to stoke it and add more coal. Seems to me like we are going backwards now, not forward.
The following users liked this post:
oilcanhenry (December 12th, 2021)
December 12th, 2021, 5:42 PM
#53
CF Monarch
Jay Dee said: "What was the problem with replacing your battery Henry" ?
It was one large battery for a small car like a Malibu. Thing looked like a truck battery. Then there were all these things that clamped onto the battery. Probably has something to do with the start/stop balony the car has. Nevertheless it's replaced now. The Malibu is a 2015 model, and the battery was AC Delco, so it looked original, the parts dont look like they've ever been removed, if so, six years on a battery is pretty damn good. I bought it used as I wanted to stay away from the 2016 Malibu which only has two turbo-charged motors. The 2015 was the last year Chevy had for the 2.5 liter naturally aspired engine, as I dont want to deal with turbocharger issues. It's been a great car, terrific gas milage and I got it pretty damn cheap from a Kia dealership 90 miles from my home, but well worth the drive to save $3000-4000 dollars, compared to prices where I live. She's been a great car and I'm very happy with it. 197 Horsepower is enough.
It was one large battery for a small car like a Malibu. Thing looked like a truck battery. Then there were all these things that clamped onto the battery. Probably has something to do with the start/stop balony the car has. Nevertheless it's replaced now. The Malibu is a 2015 model, and the battery was AC Delco, so it looked original, the parts dont look like they've ever been removed, if so, six years on a battery is pretty damn good. I bought it used as I wanted to stay away from the 2016 Malibu which only has two turbo-charged motors. The 2015 was the last year Chevy had for the 2.5 liter naturally aspired engine, as I dont want to deal with turbocharger issues. It's been a great car, terrific gas milage and I got it pretty damn cheap from a Kia dealership 90 miles from my home, but well worth the drive to save $3000-4000 dollars, compared to prices where I live. She's been a great car and I'm very happy with it. 197 Horsepower is enough.
Last edited by oilcanhenry; December 12th, 2021 at 7:46 PM.
December 12th, 2021, 11:03 PM
#54
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
Henry, sounds like an expensive battery that runs close to 200.00 or more.
i got the carb on the suburban back together today, but didn't see any other issues with that. We cook a big meal for the boy on sundays, and didn't get started till late, so , today was a washout. I am familiar with adjusting valves where the lifters have no oil, but am not quite sure what the preload would be on an engine where the lifters have oil,in them. I think I just might go 1/4 turn after zero lash and see how that works. Normally I would go half a turn, but I can always add a quarter turn . I will lube the rocker ***** with lithium grease after cleaning the rockers, then just a squirt of tri flo. This things filthy . Might try to mess with it this week.as I am getting anxious to see if It will run or not. .
i got the carb on the suburban back together today, but didn't see any other issues with that. We cook a big meal for the boy on sundays, and didn't get started till late, so , today was a washout. I am familiar with adjusting valves where the lifters have no oil, but am not quite sure what the preload would be on an engine where the lifters have oil,in them. I think I just might go 1/4 turn after zero lash and see how that works. Normally I would go half a turn, but I can always add a quarter turn . I will lube the rocker ***** with lithium grease after cleaning the rockers, then just a squirt of tri flo. This things filthy . Might try to mess with it this week.as I am getting anxious to see if It will run or not. .
December 13th, 2021, 8:46 AM
#55
Jay Dee said: "What was the problem with replacing your battery Henry" ?
It was one large battery for a small car like a Malibu. Thing looked like a truck battery. Then there were all these things that clamped onto the battery. Probably has something to do with the start/stop balony the car has. Nevertheless it's replaced now. The Malibu is a 2015 model, and the battery was AC Delco, so it looked original, the parts dont look like they've ever been removed, if so, six years on a battery is pretty damn good. I bought it used as I wanted to stay away from the 2016 Malibu which only has two turbo-charged motors. The 2015 was the last year Chevy had for the 2.5 liter naturally aspired engine, as I dont want to deal with turbocharger issues. It's been a great car, terrific gas milage and I got it pretty damn cheap from a Kia dealership 90 miles from my home, but well worth the drive to save $3000-4000 dollars, compared to prices where I live. She's been a great car and I'm very happy with it. 197 Horsepower is enough.
It was one large battery for a small car like a Malibu. Thing looked like a truck battery. Then there were all these things that clamped onto the battery. Probably has something to do with the start/stop balony the car has. Nevertheless it's replaced now. The Malibu is a 2015 model, and the battery was AC Delco, so it looked original, the parts dont look like they've ever been removed, if so, six years on a battery is pretty damn good. I bought it used as I wanted to stay away from the 2016 Malibu which only has two turbo-charged motors. The 2015 was the last year Chevy had for the 2.5 liter naturally aspired engine, as I dont want to deal with turbocharger issues. It's been a great car, terrific gas milage and I got it pretty damn cheap from a Kia dealership 90 miles from my home, but well worth the drive to save $3000-4000 dollars, compared to prices where I live. She's been a great car and I'm very happy with it. 197 Horsepower is enough.
No turbos for me either, and those small GM turbo motors have had turbo and piston issues.
December 13th, 2021, 3:39 PM
#56
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
It always seems that Auto manufacturers always have problems they don't always solve prior to selling certain models. Like for example I found in working on an 06 ,mustang 6 cylinder the alternators did not have proper grounding , and spiked to 18 to 20 volts while driving .....burning up the Alternator + batterys ,for some 3x a year.
new car buyers complained ,taking them in for warranty yet could not solve the problem, instead the replaced tge Alts + Batteries instead. They also had so much draw on the 3 boxes of fuses + relays that if the car sat for several days undriven the batteries died. One thing I found fascinating was that if there were CD's in the CD player, that played a part in itself killing the battery even if the player was turned off. I added a kill switch good for 100,000 times use on the + cable, up graded to a 200 Amp Alternator and a littlefuse for 200 Amps as instructed , including using 600 strand tinned boat cable . I utilized a hole already in the frame and an adapter piece to fit it , changed the ground and positive cable terminals to bigger diameter and used the type for different type stereo add ons. After that , I had no more problems and going from a 165 Amp Alt to a 200 Amp upgraded the car for much less than a rebuilt Motorcraft, yet was completely aftermarket compatable at 1/3 the price. So lots of folks sold their mustangs because of this simple problem . Ford never did fix it, and after many times back for warranty work that ended, the dealerships actually threw some buyers off their lots because THEY couldn't fix the dilemma and lost customers.
They also made a plastic thermostat housing on the front of the top of the engine that was a poor design + after a few years ALL split down the middle seam, and beltched coolant over the intake. There were some other intake piping issues too, but I replaced the unit with an aluminum thermostat housing , and ended that problem for the life of the car. So, manufacturers need to troubleshoot cars better with their first new models and have longer warranties in colaberation with buyers to find out what the problems the buyers are experiencing.
All I know about turbocharged engines is, they just have a shorter life......so maybe that needs looked into for improving.
new car buyers complained ,taking them in for warranty yet could not solve the problem, instead the replaced tge Alts + Batteries instead. They also had so much draw on the 3 boxes of fuses + relays that if the car sat for several days undriven the batteries died. One thing I found fascinating was that if there were CD's in the CD player, that played a part in itself killing the battery even if the player was turned off. I added a kill switch good for 100,000 times use on the + cable, up graded to a 200 Amp Alternator and a littlefuse for 200 Amps as instructed , including using 600 strand tinned boat cable . I utilized a hole already in the frame and an adapter piece to fit it , changed the ground and positive cable terminals to bigger diameter and used the type for different type stereo add ons. After that , I had no more problems and going from a 165 Amp Alt to a 200 Amp upgraded the car for much less than a rebuilt Motorcraft, yet was completely aftermarket compatable at 1/3 the price. So lots of folks sold their mustangs because of this simple problem . Ford never did fix it, and after many times back for warranty work that ended, the dealerships actually threw some buyers off their lots because THEY couldn't fix the dilemma and lost customers.
They also made a plastic thermostat housing on the front of the top of the engine that was a poor design + after a few years ALL split down the middle seam, and beltched coolant over the intake. There were some other intake piping issues too, but I replaced the unit with an aluminum thermostat housing , and ended that problem for the life of the car. So, manufacturers need to troubleshoot cars better with their first new models and have longer warranties in colaberation with buyers to find out what the problems the buyers are experiencing.
All I know about turbocharged engines is, they just have a shorter life......so maybe that needs looked into for improving.
December 13th, 2021, 4:22 PM
#57
CF Monarch
[QUOTE=Jay Dee;473527
i get it that parts of the nation get their summer water supply from winter snows, or rain . That's the problem with Arizona. They will eventually be a ghost state when water becomes scarce. It was the air quality that sent me packing, not the heat. But with the mismanagement of our energy independence, no doubt many will suffer in many ways in cold winter states, because of many circumstances. I think many will eventually have to go back to coal furnaces, as fuel oil is just too cost prohibitive. I recall my grandpa had a coal furnace, he just had to check on it frequently to stoke it and add more coal. Seems to me like we are going backwards now, not forward.[/QUOTE]
Arizona's heat has to be believed to live in it, unless you are up in $$$edona. 125 F? Too hot for me. Gets maybe 105 F around here max. Yeah, speaking of coal, no one who likes electric cars seems to get the idea that coal-powered power plants are still polluting the air. All they are doing is transferring pollution from a car to a power plant. Yeah, we seem to be going backwards, I concur. The cost of petroleum is crazy, no matter what kind it is, but it burns cleaner than coal does. If nuclear power plants were
built properly, we could use it safely, but after Fukushima's old plant went south in March 2011,that won't happen. What a mess the Japanese have on their hands, and all that radioactive material in the Pacific Ocean . We could have orbiting solar satellites, beaming the Sun's energy down to earth in microwaves, to power stations, but that won't happen, as in a war, they could be destroyed very easily.
i get it that parts of the nation get their summer water supply from winter snows, or rain . That's the problem with Arizona. They will eventually be a ghost state when water becomes scarce. It was the air quality that sent me packing, not the heat. But with the mismanagement of our energy independence, no doubt many will suffer in many ways in cold winter states, because of many circumstances. I think many will eventually have to go back to coal furnaces, as fuel oil is just too cost prohibitive. I recall my grandpa had a coal furnace, he just had to check on it frequently to stoke it and add more coal. Seems to me like we are going backwards now, not forward.[/QUOTE]
Arizona's heat has to be believed to live in it, unless you are up in $$$edona. 125 F? Too hot for me. Gets maybe 105 F around here max. Yeah, speaking of coal, no one who likes electric cars seems to get the idea that coal-powered power plants are still polluting the air. All they are doing is transferring pollution from a car to a power plant. Yeah, we seem to be going backwards, I concur. The cost of petroleum is crazy, no matter what kind it is, but it burns cleaner than coal does. If nuclear power plants were
built properly, we could use it safely, but after Fukushima's old plant went south in March 2011,that won't happen. What a mess the Japanese have on their hands, and all that radioactive material in the Pacific Ocean . We could have orbiting solar satellites, beaming the Sun's energy down to earth in microwaves, to power stations, but that won't happen, as in a war, they could be destroyed very easily.
December 13th, 2021, 4:37 PM
#58
CF Monarch
'15 2.5 also has a battery in the trunk to power everything when engine is turned off in auto start mode. I put a Trifecta tune in mine to kill the auto start and the tune cleaned up the way the trans. shifts. That large under hood battery is an AGM battery, it's needed for all the start / stopping of the auto start when in traffic as battery will not get properly recharged in stop/go traffic. All the parts on the battery terminals are part of the charging system sensor so it knows which battery needs charging.
No turbos for me either, and those small GM turbo motors have had turbo and piston issues.
No turbos for me either, and those small GM turbo motors have had turbo and piston issues.
December 14th, 2021, 11:09 PM
#59
CF Monarch
Henry, sounds like an expensive battery that runs close to 200.00 or more.
i got the carb on the suburban back together today, but didn't see any other issues with that. We cook a big meal for the boy on sundays, and didn't get started till late, so , today was a washout. I am familiar with adjusting valves where the lifters have no oil, but am not quite sure what the preload would be on an engine where the lifters have oil,in them. I think I just might go 1/4 turn after zero lash and see how that works. Normally I would go half a turn, but I can always add a quarter turn . I will lube the rocker ***** with lithium grease after cleaning the rockers, then just a squirt of tri flo. This things filthy . Might try to mess with it this week.as I am getting anxious to see if It will run or not. .
i got the carb on the suburban back together today, but didn't see any other issues with that. We cook a big meal for the boy on sundays, and didn't get started till late, so , today was a washout. I am familiar with adjusting valves where the lifters have no oil, but am not quite sure what the preload would be on an engine where the lifters have oil,in them. I think I just might go 1/4 turn after zero lash and see how that works. Normally I would go half a turn, but I can always add a quarter turn . I will lube the rocker ***** with lithium grease after cleaning the rockers, then just a squirt of tri flo. This things filthy . Might try to mess with it this week.as I am getting anxious to see if It will run or not. .
December 17th, 2021, 3:27 AM
#60
CF Junior Member
Thread Starter
My gut feelings....
Latest on project....an update and thoughts in retrospect. When I started this project, I lost my cam to crank setting due to nylon teeth wearing off on the cam gear. I set them at where they lined up, but must have turned the cam gear too far, even though marks lined up.
The reason I think this ...is the rods were extremely bent after it started up. As I have now removed the rods and number 1 , 3, 2, and 5 I believe were not just bent a little. But may have bent while trying to restart it after the cam gear failed. ( unsure)
my problem IS what do I reference resetting the gears relationship from , as the marks seemed correct after the chain replacement?
i replaced the rods, rocker *****,+ nuts, as the ***** grooves were completely worn off.... but my gut feeling Before trying to start it, iS they should not have bent at all.
That makes me suspect I MAY NOT HAVE IT RIGHT. Time will tell as today I finished installing these parts and adjusted the rockers preloads after 0 lash at 1/8th under half a turn, instead of 3/4.
After I ADJUSTED the push rods I felt in retrospect in my gut.....( even though push rods are new and marks lined up) my common sense tells me the crank can have 4 turns on it with two for the cam gear, and even with the marks lined up , could I STILL be off, , and if so....with the new push rods....if so.... will they bend again.
I have never installed a camshaft in a V-8 ..... BUT HAVE REPLACED timing chains before gears failed with no problems.
according to what I am reading is that bent push rods is relative to this relationship being set wrong.
Or........am I just paranoid ?
I know the engine started to run after replacing the chain... but when the rods began to bend ( and I mean really bent) ...that was when it started backfiring through the carb. I am like any beginner, I can follow directions , but in this case, I am unsure if I will have to go back to square one.
The CAR RAN GREAT till this ,so I'm thinking that.... after setting the preload on the pushrods that I should turn it over WITHOUT STARTING IT, to see if it bends any more push rods.....as a logical approach to discovery.
I might be wrong, as now that the carb down tubes are tapped back in, that might have caused a rich GAS situation, but having rods bending even on the side I didnt touch I found , after removing the valve cover on the right, leads me to this gut feeling ....I might have to tear it all apart again if the pushrods bend again .
Anybody out there have any thoughts?
Another question: This suburban has those tiny vacuume tubes that are plastic , that I broke a bunch of while taking the valve cover off on the right side, and even if I had this job right I still have to replace them, so what is the procedure to bending these.....do I use hot water, or what ?
This is where I am on this project .......between a rock and a hard spot, ? I am guessing so.
I THOUGHT I might bend metal tubes to replace them in the future, but for now will use stock replacements + there are 2 different diameters.
The reason I think this ...is the rods were extremely bent after it started up. As I have now removed the rods and number 1 , 3, 2, and 5 I believe were not just bent a little. But may have bent while trying to restart it after the cam gear failed. ( unsure)
my problem IS what do I reference resetting the gears relationship from , as the marks seemed correct after the chain replacement?
i replaced the rods, rocker *****,+ nuts, as the ***** grooves were completely worn off.... but my gut feeling Before trying to start it, iS they should not have bent at all.
That makes me suspect I MAY NOT HAVE IT RIGHT. Time will tell as today I finished installing these parts and adjusted the rockers preloads after 0 lash at 1/8th under half a turn, instead of 3/4.
After I ADJUSTED the push rods I felt in retrospect in my gut.....( even though push rods are new and marks lined up) my common sense tells me the crank can have 4 turns on it with two for the cam gear, and even with the marks lined up , could I STILL be off, , and if so....with the new push rods....if so.... will they bend again.
I have never installed a camshaft in a V-8 ..... BUT HAVE REPLACED timing chains before gears failed with no problems.
according to what I am reading is that bent push rods is relative to this relationship being set wrong.
Or........am I just paranoid ?
I know the engine started to run after replacing the chain... but when the rods began to bend ( and I mean really bent) ...that was when it started backfiring through the carb. I am like any beginner, I can follow directions , but in this case, I am unsure if I will have to go back to square one.
The CAR RAN GREAT till this ,so I'm thinking that.... after setting the preload on the pushrods that I should turn it over WITHOUT STARTING IT, to see if it bends any more push rods.....as a logical approach to discovery.
I might be wrong, as now that the carb down tubes are tapped back in, that might have caused a rich GAS situation, but having rods bending even on the side I didnt touch I found , after removing the valve cover on the right, leads me to this gut feeling ....I might have to tear it all apart again if the pushrods bend again .
Anybody out there have any thoughts?
Another question: This suburban has those tiny vacuume tubes that are plastic , that I broke a bunch of while taking the valve cover off on the right side, and even if I had this job right I still have to replace them, so what is the procedure to bending these.....do I use hot water, or what ?
This is where I am on this project .......between a rock and a hard spot, ? I am guessing so.
I THOUGHT I might bend metal tubes to replace them in the future, but for now will use stock replacements + there are 2 different diameters.
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oilcanhenry (December 18th, 2021)