Tahoe or Suburbans to avoid?
February 5th, 2015, 10:52 PM
#1
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Tahoe or Suburbans to avoid?
New to the forum and need some advice. I just purchased a travel trailer and need a vehicle to pull it. I have been shopping Tahoes and Suburbans in Central Florida but keep reading horror stories on the issues with Active Fuel Management engines from '07 to '09. Are these really years to avoid? Is this really an issue? If so has GM corrected it? My budget is about 23k which could get me into a 2009-2011 Chevy SUV. Whatever I get I need it to be reliable of course and don't to have to invest $$ into a problem engine. Any suggestions or direction is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Thanks.
February 5th, 2015, 11:20 PM
#2
What size travel trailer? How much does it weigh? What's its tongue weight?
Generally speaking, a Suburban is going to do better as a tow vehicle than a Tahoe. You rarely hear folks say, "Man, I wish I'd gotten a Tahoe instead of the Suburban."
Yes, a lot of people try to avoid the '07-'09 5.3 trucks. I'm currently looking, with about the same budget as you. I'm avoiding anything with a 5.3. Here's my list:
08+ Suburban 2500 (6L motor)
Yukon XL Denali (6.2)
Escalade ESV (6.2)
Escalade EXT (6.2)
Sierra Denali (6.2)
Starting in 2010, the 6.2 got AFM also.
Generally speaking, a Suburban is going to do better as a tow vehicle than a Tahoe. You rarely hear folks say, "Man, I wish I'd gotten a Tahoe instead of the Suburban."
Yes, a lot of people try to avoid the '07-'09 5.3 trucks. I'm currently looking, with about the same budget as you. I'm avoiding anything with a 5.3. Here's my list:
08+ Suburban 2500 (6L motor)
Yukon XL Denali (6.2)
Escalade ESV (6.2)
Escalade EXT (6.2)
Sierra Denali (6.2)
Starting in 2010, the 6.2 got AFM also.
February 5th, 2015, 11:32 PM
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23 foot expandable. 4400 dry with a 450ish hitch weight. My current 4runner is too light to do the job safely. I have looked at some older Denalis also. Maybe a Denali or '10 Suburban or '11 Tahoe. That seems to be what will fit my budget. But do you know if the issues are resolved with the '10+ models? Thanks for the info.
February 6th, 2015, 8:04 AM
#4
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I read the horror stories too. In the end, I ended up buying a used 07 with 175k on it or something like that. Currently has 191k on it, and haven't noticed anything abnormal (knock on wood). It is a 5.3l, and I have not disabled the AFM.
I'm not sure what makes one better than another. I recall a difference in engine blocks or at least in the vin codes that relate to the engine block, that seemed to trend to more AFM problems for one style or another. Might be worth looking into.
You could also have it tuned to remove AFM and leave it in v8 mode all the time.
Also, if you get a low enough mileage one and can negotiate a GM extended warranty on the deal, I would probably do that. Because of the age and miles on mine, I could not, and they offered a 3rd part extended warranty, but after looking into various ones it seemed better to not get the 3rd party one.
I really do like my tahoe, and the trailer you describe is similar in length and weight to mine. Mine has high miles, but I look at as more of an investment, one I might need to add to later on. Hopefully much later on lol.
I suggest a good WDH for your trailer, something along the lines of a blue ox or reese trunion style. I have a more basic WDH with the round bars and one anti-sway friction plate, and it does the job but can take a bit of tweaking to get it just right. I might add a second anti-sway just to see how it reacts, and because its the least expensive thing to do.
And its not that it sways too much or anything, I just think its a lower end hitch and just doesn't perform as well as I want.
I would also submit that the longer wheelbase suburban or yukon xl will make your towing experience better. I just couldn't find one with the options I wanted (mainly, at very least a backup camera) in the price range I needed. My tahoe on the other hand is a loaded LTZ.
Be careful with the autoride suspension vehicles as well. I really like the autoride, but on used vehicles it can be pricey to fix. I think if you had to replace the whole deal including compresser with oem stuff, your looking at upwards of 2k - 2500, maybe more.
In my case I got replacement autoride rears from arnott, and I disabled the fronts with resistors and put on replacement fronts that you would find on a LT without autoride. But my compressor was new from the dealer when I got the truck, so I wasn't concerned about that cost. Still I think I spent 400 on rear, 200 on front...something like that.
I'm not sure what makes one better than another. I recall a difference in engine blocks or at least in the vin codes that relate to the engine block, that seemed to trend to more AFM problems for one style or another. Might be worth looking into.
You could also have it tuned to remove AFM and leave it in v8 mode all the time.
Also, if you get a low enough mileage one and can negotiate a GM extended warranty on the deal, I would probably do that. Because of the age and miles on mine, I could not, and they offered a 3rd part extended warranty, but after looking into various ones it seemed better to not get the 3rd party one.
I really do like my tahoe, and the trailer you describe is similar in length and weight to mine. Mine has high miles, but I look at as more of an investment, one I might need to add to later on. Hopefully much later on lol.
I suggest a good WDH for your trailer, something along the lines of a blue ox or reese trunion style. I have a more basic WDH with the round bars and one anti-sway friction plate, and it does the job but can take a bit of tweaking to get it just right. I might add a second anti-sway just to see how it reacts, and because its the least expensive thing to do.
And its not that it sways too much or anything, I just think its a lower end hitch and just doesn't perform as well as I want.
I would also submit that the longer wheelbase suburban or yukon xl will make your towing experience better. I just couldn't find one with the options I wanted (mainly, at very least a backup camera) in the price range I needed. My tahoe on the other hand is a loaded LTZ.
Be careful with the autoride suspension vehicles as well. I really like the autoride, but on used vehicles it can be pricey to fix. I think if you had to replace the whole deal including compresser with oem stuff, your looking at upwards of 2k - 2500, maybe more.
In my case I got replacement autoride rears from arnott, and I disabled the fronts with resistors and put on replacement fronts that you would find on a LT without autoride. But my compressor was new from the dealer when I got the truck, so I wasn't concerned about that cost. Still I think I spent 400 on rear, 200 on front...something like that.
February 6th, 2015, 8:51 AM
#5
You'll definitely want to go with a Suburban for that trailer.
The weak point on the half-ton Burbs is the rear axle. With passengers and gear, and the tongue weight, you'll quickly approach the RAWR.
I pulled three different travel trailers with my half-ton '01 Burb, all of them 26 foot or larger. We took trips to Florida, the Northeast, and out west to Colorado and Yellowstone.
I used a standard WDH and a friction sway brake - never had any issues.
The ZW7 suspension, the "premium smooth ride suspension" is a great compromise between the base suspension and autoride. It uses self-leveling shocks, so the truck doesn't squat when fully loaded. Look for that RPO code.
The AFM issues "appear" to be resolved in the '10+ vehicles. The skeptic in me says that's just because the fleet of 2010+ vehicles haven't racked up enough mileage to expose the ongoing issues. Me, personally? I'll never own an '07 or newer 5.3 truck.
The 2500 trucks do not have AFM. The '07 2500 still had the 4-speed auto. Look for an '08 or newer 2500 - the 6L and 6-speed are a great combination, and IMHO, just about the most bullet-proof powertrain GM ever made. '08s should be right around $20k or so. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards buying a second one.
The weak point on the half-ton Burbs is the rear axle. With passengers and gear, and the tongue weight, you'll quickly approach the RAWR.
I pulled three different travel trailers with my half-ton '01 Burb, all of them 26 foot or larger. We took trips to Florida, the Northeast, and out west to Colorado and Yellowstone.
I used a standard WDH and a friction sway brake - never had any issues.
The ZW7 suspension, the "premium smooth ride suspension" is a great compromise between the base suspension and autoride. It uses self-leveling shocks, so the truck doesn't squat when fully loaded. Look for that RPO code.
The AFM issues "appear" to be resolved in the '10+ vehicles. The skeptic in me says that's just because the fleet of 2010+ vehicles haven't racked up enough mileage to expose the ongoing issues. Me, personally? I'll never own an '07 or newer 5.3 truck.
The 2500 trucks do not have AFM. The '07 2500 still had the 4-speed auto. Look for an '08 or newer 2500 - the 6L and 6-speed are a great combination, and IMHO, just about the most bullet-proof powertrain GM ever made. '08s should be right around $20k or so. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards buying a second one.
March 22nd, 2015, 10:30 AM
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My 2008 5.3L LTZ is pushing 140k miles. No AFM issues but if it started to have any, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'd probably disable the AFM, which seems to be effective or just keep up with oil changes and monitor oil levels diligently, making sure to add oil when necessary. In fact, GM has placed an "acceptable" amount of fuel burn in engines with AFM. IMO, this is a poor man's (or in this case a car manufacturer's) "fix" to a well known issue but IMO, it's not the death knell that many posts make it out to be. There are ways to mitigate AFM issues.
Most issues were in the earlier models (07-08) where the issues first began because owners did not know about it, never monitored fuel burn and relied solely on the DIC to determine frequency of oil changes. When the issue became more well known, more owners started to pay more attention and catastrophic issues became less prevalent.
I believe the angst that 5.3L owners have is the lack of support that GM provides on the issue when outside of the warranty period for a flaw that GM knows exists but again, decided to "fix" it by fixing the owners manual to say "it's ok" and not so much that there is no way to fix it other than expensive repairs like an engine swap.
Most issues were in the earlier models (07-08) where the issues first began because owners did not know about it, never monitored fuel burn and relied solely on the DIC to determine frequency of oil changes. When the issue became more well known, more owners started to pay more attention and catastrophic issues became less prevalent.
I believe the angst that 5.3L owners have is the lack of support that GM provides on the issue when outside of the warranty period for a flaw that GM knows exists but again, decided to "fix" it by fixing the owners manual to say "it's ok" and not so much that there is no way to fix it other than expensive repairs like an engine swap.
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March 22nd, 2015, 5:05 PM
#8
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I have an 07 5.3 with AFM and experience zero oil consumption issues until shortly after reaching 100k miles and then noticed I was a quart low and the engine seemed more noisy as well.... I added the Range AFM disable and the oil consumption has stopped, the engine seems to me, to idle smoother and more quite and in the past 2000 miles I have used no oil...
Disabling the AFM WILL decrease your over-all MPG, not horribly but it will be noticed...
March 22nd, 2015, 11:42 PM
#9
My 2008 5.3L LTZ is pushing 140k miles. No AFM issues but if it started to have any, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'd probably disable the AFM, which seems to be effective or just keep up with oil changes and monitor oil levels diligently, making sure to add oil when necessary. In fact, GM has placed an "acceptable" amount of fuel burn in engines with AFM. IMO, this is a poor man's (or in this case a car manufacturer's) "fix" to a well known issue but IMO, it's not the death knell that many posts make it out to be. There are ways to mitigate AFM issues.
Most issues were in the earlier models (07-08) where the issues first began because owners did not know about it, never monitored fuel burn and relied solely on the DIC to determine frequency of oil changes. When the issue became more well known, more owners started to pay more attention and catastrophic issues became less prevalent
Most issues were in the earlier models (07-08) where the issues first began because owners did not know about it, never monitored fuel burn and relied solely on the DIC to determine frequency of oil changes. When the issue became more well known, more owners started to pay more attention and catastrophic issues became less prevalent
the issue became less prevalent because gm started installing afm shields and undated valve covers from factory in November 2009.
March 23rd, 2015, 7:08 AM
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I guess I don't quite understand what the afm does or stands for, can someone fill me in. Im guessing that the afm has something to do with the taking it from 8 cylinder mode to 4 cylinder mode. rite now my 07 has 81000 miles on it and seems to run good but if I can disable the afm to avoid problems I would like to. Who make a tuner to shut it off, diablo? Super chips?